Linebacker

ravidubey said:
The lack of a instant-impact ILB draftee is directly because we traded for QW, who is a foundational player for our second round pick and also not trading out of the shot at Caleb Downs, which would have likely netted an extra 2nd. I do not regret acquiring either player.

But the draft, fringe churn, and fringe trades should not have been our only options as the position has been neglected in general for years.

I can picture a world where Overshown returns to elite status, Winters continues his climb to the top of second tier players, and Barham becomes an enforcer and selective blitzing specialist.

A strong front can help enable that development, but it's going to take a while.

Murray made a Mazi-level negative impact last year and was one of the main reasons we landed so historically bad, so I'm super glad he's gone. But for such an 'actively churning' team we're still bad there. I just can't understand how we let it get this way.
Click to expand...

When the Eagles won the Super Bowl in 2024 Nakobe Dean missed the playoffs and their ILB's were Zack Baun and Oren Burks during the playoffs. Baun was a complete JAG who was basically a ST guy prior to joining Fangio, and Burks is another JAG who has bounced around the league.

Last year Seattle's best ILB was Ernest Jones, another guy who has bounced around and never really been anything much better than a fringe starter similar to a guy like Dee Winters. Drake Thomas was a UDFA who came into the 2025 season playing a grand total of 40 defensive snaps, Tyrice Knight was a 4th rounder in 2024 who didn't do much as a rookie.

The fact of the matter is that the only two things that matter next year defensively are health and the extent to which Parker is a legit defensive mind or not. You can build defenses around elite ILB's, but you can also have an elite defense with complete JAG's at the position.

If Parker is legit and we stay mostly healthy, our defense will at least be above average and plenty good enough to make some noise with our offense. If he can't live up to the hype we'll probably be somewhere between shit and average.

The talent at ILB has almost nothing to do with it unless we have 3 serious injuries there, which is why I said it comes down to health and Parker.
 
Simpleton said:
When the Eagles won the Super Bowl in 2024 Nakobe Dean missed the playoffs and their ILB's were Zack Baun and Oren Burks during the playoffs. Baun was a complete JAG who was basically a ST guy prior to joining Fangio, and Burks is another JAG who has bounced around the league.

Last year Seattle's best ILB was Ernest Jones, another guy who has bounced around and never really been anything much better than a fringe starter similar to a guy like Dee Winters. Drake Thomas was a UDFA who came into the 2025 season playing a grand total of 40 defensive snaps, Tyrice Knight was a 4th rounder in 2024 who didn't do much as a rookie.

The fact of the matter is that the only two things that matter next year defensively are health and the extent to which Parker is a legit defensive mind or not. You can build defenses around elite ILB's, but you can also have an elite defense with complete JAG's at the position.

If Parker is legit and we stay mostly healthy, our defense will at least be above average and plenty good enough to make some noise with our offense. If he can't live up to the hype we'll probably be somewhere between shit and average.

The talent at ILB has almost nothing to do with it unless we have 3 serious injuries there, which is why I said it comes down to health and Parker.
Click to expand...
I think it’s a bit off to call or imply the Eagles’ or Seahawk LB’s are coached up JAGs. Whatever they were before 2025, the players fielded last year played very well by any standard. They were certainly coached well, but it was more than that too.

I mean by that reckoning, Mark Tunei, Nate Newton, John Gesek, and Kevin Gogan were the definition of JAGs and journeymen— all but complete scrubs. Then all of a sudden they became the foundation of one of the great OL’s in club history.

It had a lot to do with patterns shortening enabling shorter required blocking windows, confidence building behind better skill talent including and especially a certain #22, and natural maturity, but bottom line they together achieved lasting greatness.

Not saying either of these LBing units are the 80’s Bears, Giants, or Saints, but they have each become good on their own with or without great coaching.
 
ravidubey said:
I think it’s a bit off to call or imply the Eagles’ or Seahawk LB’s are coached up JAGs. Whatever they were before 2025, the players fielded last year played very well by any standard. They were certainly coached well, but it was more than that too.

I mean by that reckoning, Mark Tunei, Nate Newton, John Gesek, and Kevin Gogan were the definition of JAGs and journeymen— all but complete scrubs. Then all of a sudden they became the foundation of one of the great OL’s in club history.

It had a lot to do with patterns shortening enabling shorter required blocking windows, confidence building behind better skill talent including and especially a certain #22, and natural maturity, but bottom line they together achieved lasting greatness.

Not saying either of these LBing units are the 80’s Bears, Giants, or Saints, but they have each become good on their own with or without great coaching.
Click to expand...

The point is those guys were all JAG's until they got with an elite defensive mind who put them in the right positions/schematic responsibilities to emphasize their strengths and mask their weaknesses.

And yes, I'd say guys like Gesek and Newton were JAG's who were elevated once they got into the right circumstances/scheme.

The key is that you don't need elite, blue chip players in certain spots if you have the right coaching, which is why I said Parker is the real key, not some theoretical talent threshold at ILB.
 
Simpleton said:
The key is that you don't need elite, blue chip players in certain spots if you have the right coaching, which is why I said Parker is the real key, not some theoretical talent threshold at ILB.
Click to expand...
We saw Overshown thrive under Zimmer and still play well enough under Flus, despite his injury recovery.

Imagine what he might have done with great coaching as well.

Parker was great as a positional coach, but he has to prove he can scale himself through others as a Defensive Coordinator, and so it will not just be Parker's skill at coaching but his skill in hiring and getting his new LB coaches, Scott Symons (ILBs) and Chidera Uzo-Diribe (OLBs), to fit his vision and architecture.

Gonna be a learning curve.

But you also need talented players. JAGs and late round picks can't be consistently relied upon.
 
ravidubey said:
We saw Overshown thrive under Zimmer and still play well enough under Flus, despite his injury recovery.

Imagine what he might have done with great coaching as well.

Parker was great as a positional coach, but he has to prove he can scale himself through others as a Defensive Coordinator, and so it will not just be Parker's skill at coaching but his skill in hiring and getting his new LB coaches, Scott Symons (ILBs) and Chidera Uzo-Diribe (OLBs), to fit his vision and architecture.

Gonna be a learning curve.

But you also need talented players. JAGs and late round picks can't be consistently relied upon.
Click to expand...

Yea I agree that Parker is the real swing factor for the defense, obviously health as well, and then after that it's whether young/unproven guys can step up like Lawrence, Ezeiruaku, Winters, Barham and Revel.

Our ILB talent is fine, obviously not great or anywhere near elite, but fine as long as you have a legit DC and some strong players around them, which I believe we do.
 
In any case, I half wish we’d target an experienced guy via trade. The other half is super excited to see a healthy Overshown playing behind a healthy QW in his prime
 
ravidubey said:
I half wish we’d target an experienced guy via trade.
Click to expand...

Hello.

images
 
ravidubey said:
The lack of a instant-impact ILB draftee is directly because we traded for QW, who is a foundational player for our second round pick and also not trading out of the shot at Caleb Downs, which would have likely netted an extra 2nd. I do not regret acquiring either player.

But the draft, fringe churn, and fringe trades should not have been our only options as the position has been neglected in general for years.

I can picture a world where Overshown returns to elite status, Winters continues his climb to the top of second tier players, and Barham becomes an enforcer and selective blitzing specialist.

A strong front can help enable that development, but it's going to take a while.

Murray made a Mazi-level negative impact last year and was one of the main reasons we landed so historically bad, so I'm super glad he's gone. But for such an 'actively churning' team we're still bad there. I just can't understand how we let it get this way.
Click to expand...
When was Overshown ever elite?
 
Smitty said:
When was Overshown ever elite?
Click to expand...
Well, injury prevented us from seeing him voted all-pro, pro-bowl, or anything like that. So maybe not elite, but…

Total Pressures: 20 (7th among all NFL inside linebackers)
Sacks: 5 (4th among all linebackers)
Blitz Rate: Rushed the passer on 17.6% of his snaps
Pass-Rush Grade: Ranked in the Top 10 at his position by PFF
Season Stats: 90 combined tackles, 1 interception (returned for a touchdown), and 1 forced fumble

In his first 13 games— the only player younger than Overshown to replicate that stat line through his team's first 13 games is Brian Urlacher.

He was doing all of the following roles at a high level by the time he was injured:
  • off-ball linebacker with sick sideline to sideline speed
  • both green-dog and edge blitzer
  • spy
  • underneath zone robbing
  • slot matchup defender

Parsons himself quoted as saying "I might want to hop back and play linebacker again just so I could play with him."

So quibble about how that kind of production wasn’t elite all you want, I’d like Overshown to get back to being that guy who was killing it and only getting better.
 
So, given how strongly he played in 2025 (162 total tackles (79 solo), 4.5 sacks, 2 interceptions, Walter Payton MOY), would it be worth bringing in Bobby Wagner into the rotation, for his leadership if nothing else?

Supposing Overshown returns to form, why take a chance that the guy next to him starting in September isn't that good?

Games in September are worth just as much as they are in December, I mean, why compromise the product on the field to develop a guy?
 
Chocolate Lab said:
I think the problem is what are the odds Overshown stays healthy? So then it's Winters and what, hoping Barham gets it right away?

And Downs may be a good box player but he's like 5-10, 205. Not a LB.
Click to expand...



All of my money is on him being injured before week 8. And it wouldn't shock me if he doesn't make it out of training camp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom