Kiper's 2017 Big Boards/Rankings

I've seen Mahomes all over the board. Damn good talent but needs more polish to go that high. When he is good he is very good but he lacks pocket discipline and experience. He didn't really play QB until his Jr year of HS and has only had one football offseason in his entire life when he wasn't playing baseball.
 
3 possessions into Bedlam and there have been 3 punts.

It's like they accidentally discovered defense during the bye week.
 
skidadl said:
I've seen Mahomes all over the board. Damn good talent but needs more polish to go that high. When he is good he is very good but he lacks pocket discipline and experience. He didn't really play QB until his Jr year of HS and has only had one football offseason in his entire life when he wasn't playing baseball.
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I think it speaks to how weak this QB draft class may be.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I think it speaks to how weak this QB draft class may be.
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In think that is why it looks like he will declare. This is the year that he can cash in. His family is wealthy (dad played professional baseball for 17 years) so I think he needs to stay. He didn't have many chances to sit back and throw with the OL sucking really bad this year. Played with a torn knee ligament, sprained AC in both shoulders, broken bone in wrist and a hip injury all year.

The dude made some very spectacular plays the last two years though.

 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I'd probably try and plug some holes in free agency as well if possible. DE though is the one spot where it seems near impossible to find a good free agent. Well unless of course you get someone in their thirties like a Peppers or Ware type.

LBer is way down my list of needs. I've said it before, I wouldn't pass up an elite talent there but it wouldn't be a priority either. Not with Lee and Jaylon Smith. Not to mention Wilson has really started to play well this year (Only his second year) and Hitchens is at least solid. Safety may be a little different though. Safety is a position that should be picking off a lot of passes in our defense. The problem is our safeties either lack the athletic ability or the hands to create turnovers.
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Lee is getting old and is still a injury risk, Smith is still a huge question mark.

LB is the weakest part of the D in my opinion a real difference maker is still needed.

I think DE is the biggest need but I would not reach if the LB is rated higher I take him.
 
Simpleton said:
While this is all true I think Davis is too good to pass up at 28, 29 or where ever we're picking in the late 20's/early 30's.

I think he's a top 15-20 talent and probably will be gone, especially if he goes to the Senior Bowl and kills it. If there was a DL, LB or safety prospect that was his caliber of prospect I'd definitely go that route, I just don't think that's likely.

I'm not ready to say this with full confidence just yet but I think he may be the best WR in the class.
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Don't know anything about the player but WR is not a pressing need IMO and if Davis is that kind of prospect I don't see him going that low.
 
Jiggyfly said:
Lee is getting old and is still a injury risk, Smith is still a huge question mark.

LB is the weakest part of the D in my opinion a real difference maker is still needed.

I think DE is the biggest need but I would not reach if the LB is rated higher I take him.
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I honestly am not worried bout Jaylon Smith being ready for next year. Maybe that's the difference. Plus we have like one probowl player on this defense and it's Sean Lee. So those two things have LBer down my list of needs pribably below WR.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I honestly am not worried bout Jaylon Smith being ready for next year. Maybe that's the difference. Plus we have like one probowl player on this defense and it's Sean Lee. So those two things have LBer down my list of needs pribably below WR.
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Smith still cannot completely pick up his foot and Lee has yet to play a full year healthy is getting older and seems to have lost a step.

Oh yeah Smith has never played a down in the NFL.

I don't see how anyone could put WR receiver over LB.
 
Jiggyfly said:
Smith still cannot completely pick up his foot and Lee has yet to play a full year healthy is getting older and seems to have lost a step.

Oh yeah Smith has never played a down in the NFL.

I don't see how anyone could put WR receiver over LB.
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Because half our WR corp are free agents including a starter. Our LBer corp includes a probowler and a top 5 draft pick talent. As well as two young and up coming talents in Wilson and Hitchens. Seems pretty easy to see.

LB is the one position on defense that isn't a massive need.
 
Jiggyfly said:
Smith still cannot completely pick up his foot and Lee has yet to play a full year healthy is getting older and seems to have lost a step.

Oh yeah Smith has never played a down in the NFL.

I don't see how anyone could put WR receiver over LB.
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So you think we should overpay Terrence Williams or start Beasley? And no, I don't think Butler is starting material.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Because half our WR corp are free agents including a starter. Our LBer corp includes a probowler and a top 5 draft pick talent. As well as two young and up coming talents in Wilson and Hitchens. Seems pretty easy to see.

LB is the one position on defense that isn't a massive need.
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Sean Lee made the pro bowlas an alternate and has been injured a large chunk of his career how can that not be a issue.

Smith still cannot pick up his foot all the way.

Wilson might have promise but Hitchens got his job taken by ancient Durant this year and is very inconsistent.

You are right it is pretty easy, LB has many more question marks that WR, every LB we have is a question mark.
 
Jiggyfly said:
Sean Lee made the pro bowlas an alternate and has been injured a large chunk of his career how can that not be a issue.

Smith still cannot pick up his foot all the way.

Wilson might have promise but Hitchens got his job taken by ancient Durant this year and is very inconsistent.

You are right it is pretty easy, LB has many more question marks that WR, every LB we have is a question mark.
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Well I didn't want to jinx Lee so I refuse to talk about his injury history. But you know what direction he is trending with that. We didn't draft Jaylon and redshirt him for a year with the thought that he wouldn't be a starter. There have been no reports of any setback in his rehab so I see no reason to deviate from that plan. And frankly, we run a nickle defense over 50% of the time so the third LBer is a minimal need at best. Sorry, I just can't see your view on it at all. Not sure what you have seen this year to be so worried about LBer. And yes I prioritize a starter over a backup, which is good possibility for a drafted LBer.
 
boozeman said:
So you think we should overpay Terrence Williams or start Beasley? And no, I don't think Butler is starting material.
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Nope?

It's easier to find a 2nd receiver type in FA or later in the draft than a stud LB or safety.

And like I said before it's most likely moot if this guy is that good he will not be available late in 1st.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Well I didn't want to jinx Lee so I refuse to talk about his injury history. But you know what direction he is trending with that. We didn't draft Jaylon and redshirt him for a year with the thought that he wouldn't be a starter. There have been no reports of any setback in his rehab so I see no reason to deviate from that plan. And frankly, we run a nickle defense over 50% of the time so the third LBer is a minimal need at best. Sorry, I just can't see your view on it at all. Not sure what you have seen this year to be so worried about LBer. And yes I prioritize a starter over a backup, which is good possibility for a drafted LBer.
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The direction he is trending is older and we all know how that relates to injuries.

You keep acting like Smith is not a question mark just because we have planned things does not mean they will happen as planned, I am optimistic that he will be back on the field but I also realize he can not be counted on at this point.

And what does being in nickel have to do with anything?

Lee is a step slow in coverage now, Hitchens is average at best and Wilson gets no snaps in nickel, if Smith comes back and that is still an if, he would be the only plus coverage LB we have.

What I have seen this year at LB is Hitchens never getting of blocks and still overrunning plays.

Sean Lee being a step slower in coverage and the fact that his contract is up in a year.

Wilson is looking OK but wanting more than OK at LB.

LB's are the driving force in a Marinelli defense if you see no need to worry about our LB play, I really question your ability to identify what makes defenses great.
 
Jiggyfly said:
The direction he is trending is older and we all know how that relates to injuries.

You keep acting like Smith is not a question mark just because we have planned things does not mean they will happen as planned, I am optimistic that he will be back on the field but I also realize he can not be counted on at this point.

And what does being in nickel have to do with anything?

Lee is a step slow in coverage now, Hitchens is average at best and Wilson gets no snaps in nickel, if Smith comes back and that is still an if, he would be the only plus coverage LB we have.

What I have seen this year at LB is Hitchens never getting of blocks and still overrunning plays.

Sean Lee being a step slower in coverage and the fact that his contract is up in a year.

Wilson is looking OK but wanting more than OK at LB.

LB's are the driving force in a Marinelli defense if you see no need to worry about our LB play, I really question your ability to identify what makes defenses great.
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Jaylon Smith isn't any bigger of a question mark then a late first round pick at LBer going into next season. And Sean Lee won't be hitting the bench. So now you've just used a first round pick on a guy to sit behind those two. That seems pretty dumb to me. That's why the nickle matters. Because your third LBer doesn't even play half the snaps.
 
LB is a bigger need than WR because we need play makers on defense one way or another. I wouldn't hesitate to take a guy like Davis at 30 or what have you if he is the BPA because we need another outside/vertical threat aside from Dez, but the fact remains that a rookie WR would be our 4th option in the passing game behind Dez, Beasley and Witten.

Of course Witten is on his way out and Dez will be 29 next year, that's why I would have no problem taking a WR.

In a theoretical situation where we have an evenly ranked LB and an evenly ranked WR, I'd go LB just because of the bigger need in general on that side of the ball. Lee will be 31 next year and it'd be nice if he didn't have to play 100% of the snaps, which could extend his career. Smith is a huge question mark and the rest is just depth. The impact of true three-down LB's is underrated, and while we may have a pair in Lee/Smith, they both come with significant question marks and it sure would be nice to not be forced into playing Lee on literally every snap.

It's true that we are often in nickel/dime and only have 2 LB's on the field, which is why I'd also be ok with taking a jumbo-safety type like a Deone Bucannon or Su'a Cravens in the 2nd-4th area.

To be clear, neither position is a massive need and if we don't take one in the first 3 rounds I'd be fine with it (assuming we are actually taking useful positions, not dicking around with TE's), but I could easily argue that taking either a WR or a LB in the 1st provides value.
 
I am not hell bent on a first round WR, but if the value is there, hell yeah I take a Davis. Dede Westbrook would be another guy with speed, although more like trading down into the top of the 2nd.
 
boozeman said:
I am not hell bent on a first round WR, but if the value is there, hell yeah I take a Davis. Dede Westbrook would be another guy with speed, although more like trading down into the top of the 2nd.
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Yea, don't think I'd take Westbrook in the first, if we traded back 10-15 picks, perhaps, and definitely if he was there at the end of the 2nd.

Davis is a legit top 15-20 talent for me, that's why I wouldn't hesitate to take him, because he'd almost certainly be the BPA. With that said, if there was a DE available who was ranked similar to Davis but just slightly below, let's say you have Davis at 17th overall and a DE at 21st, I'd go with the DE just because of the need.
 
Simpleton said:
Yea, don't think I'd take Westbrook in the first, if we traded back 10-15 picks, perhaps, and definitely if he was there at the end of the 2nd.

Davis is a legit top 15-20 talent for me, that's why I wouldn't hesitate to take him, because he'd almost certainly be the BPA. With that said, if there was a DE available who was ranked similar to Davis but just slightly below, let's say you have Davis at 17th overall and a DE at 21st, I'd go with the DE just because of the need.
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The ideal situation is DE in the first. I think that would all be our preference. If not that I'd be all for a safety or hell even a corner capable of picking off a pass or two. But beyomd that LBer is a position we don't need to address at all. Certainly wouldn't pass on an elite guy, but I'm not going out of my way for a LBer.

WR will need to be adressed. That can either be through the draft or it can be in free agency. But right now Williams and Butler are free agents and I'm not sure we resign either.
 
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