Graziano: Why Garrett remains in Cowboys' plans

Lotuseater said:
I don't think getting Carr and Claiborne was overkill. It was clear Jenkins wasn't the answer
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Not only is this statement completely false, it discounts the fact that we had Scandrick as well (who had a good season last year), and the fact that there were cheaper viable alternatives on the market.
 
Why is it ok that we move heaven and earth when we need to upgrade corner, but not when we need to upgrade at tackle?

Our situation at tackle this year is worse than our situation at CB last offseason.

I wouldn't mind so much what we did at corner last offseason if we treated RT the same way this offseason. It is insane to me that we overkill to fix CB even though we have two perfectly capable players (Jenkins and Scandrick), but we do virtually nothing at RT even though we have no capable players. This is not legitimate front office action.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Not only is this statement completely false, it discounts the fact that we had Scandrick as well (who had a good season last year), and the fact that there were cheaper viable alternatives on the market.
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No, its not wrong. Jenkins was a streaky player who had tackling concerns. He is no Morris Claiborne. Or Brandon Carr.

You're also looking at this in a vacuum, not realizing Jerry had rob Ryan screaming about getting his two elite "press corners" to "fix" the defense.

He didn't know he'd have to sign a whole new starting defense off the street, though, so the corners didn't really get a chance to play like Ryan wanted them to play. He was busy bailing out the boat.
 
mschmidt64 said:
You really play to type.
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Its not a type thing, just a situation where the stars align and you have an opportunity to get one of the best 4-3 mlbs ever to come in and impart some wisdom to your two talented mlbs as they make the switch to the 4-3. Seems like a smart plan towards the future, an investment that would really pay off.

Which is exactly why it didn't happen.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Why is it ok that we move heaven and earth when we need to upgrade corner, but not when we need to upgrade at tackle?

Our situation at tackle this year is worse than our situation at CB last offseason.

I wouldn't mind so much what we did at corner last offseason if we treated RT the same way this offseason. It is insane to me that we overkill to fix CB even though we have two perfectly capable players (Jenkins and Scandrick), but we do virtually nothing at RT even though we have no capable players. This is not legitimate front office action.
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It seems to be a combination of being cheap, not understanding the importance of the OL, and old-fashioned Jerry Jones stubbornness.

This blaise approach to RT is patently insane since bad CB's can lead to a poor defense that gives up a lot of yards and points in the air, but a horrible RT not only stymies offensive production, but also directly threatens the health and well-being of your $100 mil QB.
 
Lotuseater said:
No, its not wrong. Jenkins was a streaky player who had tackling concerns. He is no Morris Claiborne. Or Brandon Carr.

You're also looking at this in a vacuum, not realizing Jerry had rob Ryan screaming about getting his two elite "press corners" to "fix" the defense.

He didn't know he'd have to sign a whole new starting defense off the street, though, so the corners didn't really get a chance to play like Ryan wanted them to play. He was busy bailing out the boat.
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No, it's wrong.
 
Bluestar71 said:
It seems to be a combination of being cheap, not understanding the importance of the OL, and old-fashioned Jerry Jones stubbornness.

This blaise approach to RT is patently insane since bad CB's can lead to a poor defense that gives up a lot of yards and points in the air, but a horrible RT not only stymies offensive production, but also directly threatens the health and well-being of your $100 mil QB.
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I just think its rather silly to call Jerry out on this because its not a normal situation. He found and paid what we all thought was a solid player. Did he overpay? Sure. Buts that what free what have commanded on the market, so I guess he should have let him walk.

He found and decided to pay what he thought was a solid versitile lineman, who was playing well. How can he be at fault for free inexplicably falling off his pony as soon as he signed his deal?
 
Lotuseater said:
I just think its rather silly to call Jerry out on this because its not a normal situation. He found and paid what we all thought was a solid player. Did he overpay? Sure. Buts that what free what have commanded on the market, so I guess he should have let him walk.

He found and decided to pay what he thought was a solid versitile lineman, who was playing well. How can he be at fault for free inexplicably falling off his pony as soon as he signed his deal?
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Even if you don't blame Jerry for misevaluating Free when they gave him the contract (I do, but it's kind of irrelevant now so let's put that aside for the moment), you can certainly blame Jerry for not replacing Free now, when it's clear that upgrading Free is imperative to this team's success. I think that's what we've been talking about here.
 
Lotuseater said:
No, its not wrong. Jenkins was a streaky player who had tackling concerns. He is no Morris Claiborne. Or Brandon Carr.

You're also looking at this in a vacuum, not realizing Jerry had rob Ryan screaming about getting his two elite "press corners" to "fix" the defense.

He didn't know he'd have to sign a whole new starting defense off the street, though, so the corners didn't really get a chance to play like Ryan wanted them to play. He was busy bailing out the boat.
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This stupid excuse again. The defense didn't play well when it was healthy either.
 
Clay_Allison said:
This stupid excuse again. The defense didn't play well when it was healthy either.
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I feel that Ryan suffered from a lot of the same problems Garrett did.

Bad at adjusting, could never seem to get his players organized and on the same page.

Seemed like he was bad at calling the shots in real time. Although I will give him that win against Pittsburg, which will have to go down as my happiest moment of the Garrett era.
 
townsend said:
I feel that Ryan suffered from a lot of the same problems Garrett did.

Bad at adjusting, could never seem to get his players organized and on the same page.

Seemed like he was bad at calling the shots in real time. Although I will give him that win against Pittsburg, which will have to go down as my happiest moment of the Garrett era.
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He didn't do crap against the Steelers. His defense struggled that whole contest after the first couple of drives.

The win was predominantly because Carr made a huge play.
 
Lotuseater said:
I don't think getting Carr and Claiborne was overkill. It was clear Jenkins wasn't the answer, and that's a wasted first, so you'd have to go out and get Claiborne to replace him. Carr and Claiborne are two really good starting corners.

It was expensive, but corners are, and we haven't had a pair of starters that were this caliber in gosh.....I don't even know. I guess since the 90's.
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Given you can't have top players at every position I think it's too much invested in the deep corners and edges of the field all at once. Worse, in a few years you'll have to pay both a huge sum of money. The more you spread the wealth the stronger your defense. You need a top corner, but I think you also need a top safety, top linebacker top lineman, and top pass rusher.

I think if you put all your eggs into small pockets of the field, it's too easy to get exploited elsewhere. For example, if you put three 1st round picks and a top free agent on the front line and kept the rest average, today's offenses would butt-rape you.

The Bucs built a contender off of Barber, Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, and Rice-- basically covered the entire field and pass-rush. The other pieces were interchangeable parts. They also lucked into Barber, hitting on a hall of fame caliber player in the 3rd round.
 
I remember a couple well timed sacks stalling the Steelers last drive before overtime too.
 
Lotuseater said:
I don't think getting Carr and Claiborne was overkill.
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It was overkill.

It was clear Jenkins wasn't the answer, and that's a wasted first, so you'd have to go out and get Claiborne to replace him. Carr and Claiborne are two really good starting corners.
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Jenkins had been just fine here. If he's not the answer then you are asking the wrong question. Nothing wrong with him as a #2 CB. There is zero need for two #1 type corners here even if you're a DB whore.

And if you're not, then you'd realize that Jenkins-Scandrick-FA-FA-2nd/3rd round pick, would have been excellent depth-wise, just as effective, and far, far cheaper.

It was expensive, but corners are, and we haven't had a pair of starters that were this caliber in gosh.....I don't even know. I guess since the 90's.
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And it got us jack shit.

Because that's what corners do.
 
mschmidt64 said:
It was overkill.



Jenkins had been just fine here. If he's not the answer then you are asking the wrong question. Nothing wrong with him as a #2 CB. There is zero need for two #1 type corners here even if you're a DB whore.

And if you're not, then you'd realize that Jenkins-Scandrick-FA-FA-2nd/3rd round pick, would have been excellent depth-wise, just as effective, and far, far cheaper.



And it got us jack shit.

Because that's what corners do.
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I'd agree with you if you didn't sound like such a dick when you're right.
 
mschmidt64 said:
That last part is all I'm going for.
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Ignore your dicktitude all you want, its not going anywhere.

You bitch about corners, but you're the first one in the gameday thread to go all CARR!!! CLAIBORNE!!!!! When a play is made.
 
mschmidt64 said:
Jenkins had been just fine here.
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No one should have any kind of positive recollection of Mike Jenkins. He is a cowardly, over-drafted POS. The fact that Garrett got rid, improves my opinion of Garrett, not Jenkins. I hated him as a player.
 
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