Farmer - NFL mock draft: Reporters make selections

boozeman said:
Mankins followed the exact same path. Played LT his entire college career. If you support the comparison of the two, it is not that much of a stretch.
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Pugh was drafted far closer to where Martin will go then Mankins...

Mankins was also a dominating run blocker in college. I don't see that in Martin. When I'm looking to move a guy inside from OT I generally look for an OT with a lot of power. Especially since he will basically be switching from blocking 270 lb guys to 310-320 lb guys. I don't see Martin having the run blocking power of a guy like Mankins. Instead you're just going to get a technically sound guard who stalemates his defender or gives up some ground most of the time.

As purely a guard prospect I don't think Martin is worth pick 16. As purely a RT prospect I don't think he is worth pick 16. I think the reason he gets ranked so high is because he is a guard/OT hybrid prospect. That doesn't get me excited. Of course we could do worse. I still think Martin starts in the NFL for the next 10 years. I just don't think he will be viewed as an elite guy during that time.
 
NoDak said:
Tyron Smith and Travis Frederick say hello.
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Thank you for affirming my point. We've already invested two first rounders, so I don't see a third.

No tyron and no frederick prior and I can see OL being drafted.
 
pdom said:
Thank you for affirming my point. We've already invested two first rounders, so I don't see a third.

No tyron and no frederick prior and I can see OL being drafted.
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How is that affirming your point? People were saying that en masse before both of those drafts, too. 'Jerry doesn't draft oline in the first round.' 'Well, he took Smith in the first. No way in hell he'll take another one.'
 
Iirc Jerry said recently not to rule out us taking ol if dl we want isn't there
 
boozeman said:
To each their own. It is a tall order for a guy to come in and be a consensus All Pro like Mankins was almost instantly.

But I do know that Martin is grading out highly by a lot of teams that know what they are doing when evaluating OL. That does not happen by accident or if the guy is just as good as any old guard you can find later on.

If I can find a guy that can play practically any position on the OL that you can plug in at guard and not worry about for the next 8-10 years, I value that player quite a bit.

Is that a player I covet? Probably not, but it is a hell of a consolation prize when you can get a good safe pick like that in the middle point of the first round.
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This is how I look at Martin, it's starting to look like he won't even be available at 16. In this scenario I'd take Bortles, or at the very least look to trade down because teams would certainly be interested in trading up if Bortles starts dropping that far, but I'd be 100% happy with Martin at 16.

He's definitely far better than Pugh, they're just similar in that they both played LT in college and have the versatility to play OG or RT, and perhaps LT as well. I also don't know where the idea that the guy isn't nasty comes from, just because he's not 330 doesn't mean he isn't physical or nasty.
 
Carp said:
Fluker is real damn good and not a liability. Maybe I am just a fan and want something more exciting than Martin. You can get the same type of G later.
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There are some very slim scenarios where Martin would be the best value at 16 but this isn't one of them.
 
Carp said:
You can only go by the mock...if we are basing it on realism then Martin is not a top 16 player.
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And as this mock again shows, there is someone better than Martin available at 16. In this case it's Bortles.

If Bortles goes before 16, someone else falls. Like Barr.

Simple math. Someone will be there. It would literally have to be like the 15 guys I like better than Martin all going before us in order for Martin to be the BPA.

And that won't happen since a couple DBs, maybe Ebron, and another unforeseen player or two will go before us.
 
mschmidt64 said:
There are some very slim scenarios where Martin would be the best value at 16 but this isn't one of them.
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I am not a huge fan of best value picks as a rule. I will tend more to the need side in the majority instance and get the BPA for that position. I liken it to Parcells grocery shopping example. When you go to the market place you don't exclusively shop for the best bargin. You may bring back a cart of stuff that will sit on the shelf. Instead you shop for the things you need to prepare the meals you will be eating.
 
L.T. Fan said:
I am not a huge fan of best value picks as a rule. I will tend more to the need side in the majority instance and get the BPA for that position. I liken it to Parcells grocery shopping example. When you go to the market place you don't exclusively shop for the best bargin. You may bring back a cart of stuff that will sit on the shelf. Instead you shop for the things you need to prepare the meals you will be eating.
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To put it in terms of a grocery shopping analgy, doing BPA is like going to Sam's Club and buying good buys in bulk and then when the time comes that you need them, you actually saved money and you are coming out ahead.

But building a team isn't really like grocery shopping. There is a huge benefit to stockpiling the best players. It is many times better to have a dominant unit and a weak unit than two average units.

Especially when the average type players are available in every draft and the elite ones might not be. You build a team over a few years. If you need a free safety and don't need a WR, but there is an elite WR and merely a good starting safety, take the WR. You can get that same caliber FS next year when there isn't an elite WR available.

The only time you should really make an exception to this rule is if you are legitimately one player away. If you think getting one player at position X means the difference between being a legit Super Bowl contender (on the level of like the Broncos, Seahawks or 49ers heading into this season), then that is a reason to get that position with blinders on.
 
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mschmidt64 said:
There are some very slim scenarios where Martin would be the best value at 16 but this isn't one of them.
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From what I have read, Martin is held by execs in higher esteem than you and others hold him in.

Since we are talking about mythical value, I think we have already demonstrated that you don't have a firm grasp about where player stock is right now.
 
boozeman said:
From what I have read, Martin is held by execs in higher esteem than you and others hold him in.

Since we are talking about mythical value, I think we have already demonstrated that you don't have a firm grasp about where player stock is right now.
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Gil Brandt has him at 14 on his overall prospect list.
 
mschmidt64 said:
To put it in terms of a grocery shopping analgy, doing BPA is like going to Sam's Club and buying good buys in bulk and then when the time comes that you need them, you actually saved money and you are coming out ahead.

But building a team isn't really like grocery shopping. There is a huge benefit to stockpiling the best players. It is many times better to have a dominant unit and a weak unit than two average units.

Especially when the average type players are available in every draft and the elite ones might not be. You build a team over a few years. If you need a free safety and don't need a WR, but there is an elite WR and merely a good starting safety, take the WR. You can get that same caliber FS next year when there isn't an elite WR available.

The only time you should really make an exception to this rule is if you are legitimately one player away. If you think getting one player at position X means the difference between being a legit Super Bowl contender (on the level of like the Broncos, Seahawks or 49ers heading into this season), then that is a reason to get that position with blinders on.
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Can't really stockpile players much anymore. You acquire them with the idea of putting them on the field right away. There are few scenarios where the stockpile system applies in today's NFL. It has pretty much changed the drafting approach for virtually every organization.
 
boozeman said:
From what I have read, Martin is held by execs in higher esteem than you and others hold him in.

Since we are talking about mythical value, I think we have already demonstrated that you don't have a firm grasp about where player stock is right now.
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Well I am certainly talking about my own opinion of the player and not anyone else's.
 
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