Eatman: Despite Losing Ware and Hatcher, Jones Certain D-Line Improves

[L.T. Fan]

When Greg Ellis was still in the lineup I think I am the only one on this board that thought he was a solid player. My how time changes things.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Not saying it's my first choice, just acceptable.

The bottom line is you can't have Dee Ford and Jackson Jeffcoat as your starting ends. You need a guy who is a little bit of an anchor, too.

Yeah, you have a guy like Selvie who was very solid against the run and provided a nice 7 sacks.

 

[boozeman]

When Greg Ellis was still in the lineup I think I am the only one on this board that thought he was a solid player. My how time changes things.

He was a solid player who the fanbase elevated to very good and who Jones paid like it simply because of our state of suck in finding a pass rusher.

It scares me now we are in that same boat, with our braintrust wanting a pass rusher.

 

[L.T. Fan]

He was a solid player who the fanbase elevated to very good and who Jones paid like it simply because of our state of suck in finding a pass rusher.

It scares me now we are in that same boat, with our braintrust wanting a pass rusher.

Memory serves me that he arrived at "He sucks" status when he became a whiner. His play was the same but folks turned on him over his commentaries.

 

[boozeman]

Memory serves me that he arrived at "He sucks" status when he became a whiner. His play was the same but folks turned on him over his commentaries.

Regardless of the anger over not choosing Moss or his level of play, he was not worth the choice and some want to make the same kind of mistake again simply because we are desperate.

I don't losing any more than the next guy, but sometimes you can't just look to fill that year's hole and grab for need.

 

[ravidubey]

Ellis had a 12 year, 84 sack career in spite of breaking his leg (thanks to one of Jerry's psychotic players), and switching positions when the coaches asked him to.

In hindsight, only Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, Alan Faneca and Randy Moss, and maybe Matt Birk were better players in that whole draft, though Fred Taylor would have been had he managed to remain healthy. He was at least the equal of Tra Thomas, better than Kyle Turley, and also fit a critical need on the DL after the Carver and Pittman debacles.

Can you imagine the blowback had he been a bust like Andre Wadsworth or Grant Wistrom who were drafted ahead of him in the top ten?

Criticizing Ellis out of the history of Jerry-draft picks is incredibly anti-homerish.

 

[Smitty]

Yeah, you have a guy like Selvie who was very solid against the run and provided a nice 7 sacks.

ur on ignore

 

[Cotton]

ur on ignore

Ur doing it wrong.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Regardless of the anger over not choosing Moss or his level of play, he was not worth the choice and some want to make the same kind of mistake again simply because we are desperate.

I don't losing any more than the next guy, but sometimes you can't just look to fill that year's hole and grab for need.

Whether Ellis was drafted #1 or # 6 by Dallas, he was still a solid and reliable player. Once a player is on the team , position drafted is just a conversation topic. When they take the field they either play well or they don't.

 

[mcnuttz]

Ellis had a 12 year, 84 sack career in spite of breaking his leg (thanks to one of Jerry's psychotic players), and switching positions when the coaches asked him to.

In hindsight, only Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, Alan Faneca and Randy Moss, and maybe Matt Birk were better players in that whole draft, though Fred Taylor would have been had he managed to remain healthy. He was at least the equal of Tra Thomas, better than Kyle Turley, and also fit a critical need on the DL after the Carver and Pittman debacles.

Can you imagine the blowback had he been a bust like Andre Wadsworth or Grant Wistrom who were drafted ahead of him in the top ten?

Criticizing Ellis out of the history of Jerry-draft picks is incredibly anti-homerish.

Robert Edwards and Takeo Spikes wanted me to let you know that it's time to GFY.

 

[Smitty]

Whether Ellis was drafted #1 or # 6 by Dallas, he was still a solid and reliable player. Once a player is on the team , position drafted is just a conversation topic. When they take the field they either play well or they don't.

Well, no, because you always want the best player. If you got a solid player but passed on a great player, it's a topic worth revisiting.

That being said, it's unrealistic to expect every first rounder to be a Pro Bowler. A Greg Ellis type of ten year quality starter is still a solid "B" draft pick outside the top 10 of a draft. You should be aiming for an A, but you want to avoid Fs, too. Sometimes it's ok to settle for the B, and I think Ealy would be that.

 

[Clay_Allison]

It is more likely to be cheap, but it's not necessarily so. It's a vital part of defense, so if you can get one of the better players at it, I'm all for it. And again, we're not talking Chris Canty with a career high of 4 sacks, we're talking about a Chris Canty LIKE player with more pass rush ability, in the 8 sack range.

I don't think Ealy ends up in that range.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Well, no, because you always want the best player. If you got a solid player but passed on a great player, it's a topic worth revisiting.

That being said, it's unrealistic to expect every first rounder to be a Pro Bowler. A Greg Ellis type of ten year quality starter is still a solid "B" draft pick outside the top 10 of a draft. You should be aiming for an A, but you want to avoid Fs, too. Sometimes it's ok to settle for the B, and I think Ealy would be that.

Once the draft is over it's all academic as to whether someone should have been taken or someone different should have been selected. It just a topic to vent about. The only thing that really matters is once a player is selected will they produce. It's the only tangible thing that can be observed and graded. Again the rest is preferential venting and dialogue.

 

[ravidubey]

Robert Edwards and Takeo Spikes wanted me to let you know that it's time to GFY.

Then it's funny that Greg Ellis was a better linebacker over the two years they both played the position, right?

Robert Edwards is a never-was. The kid barely had a chance, and was highly overrated.

That fucking Wadsworth for Leaf trade set such am overpriced market value for top 10 picks that Jerry refused to trade 8 for 18 so New England could get Fred Taylor, the RB they really wanted. You know Dallas would have taken Moss at 18. Instead Jerry asked for the moon and Kraft probably told him to go fuck himself.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Ellis had a 12 year, 84 sack career in spite of breaking his leg (thanks to one of Jerry's psychotic players), and switching positions when the coaches asked him to.

In hindsight, only Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, Alan Faneca and Randy Moss, and maybe Matt Birk were better players in that whole draft, though Fred Taylor would have been had he managed to remain healthy. He was at least the equal of Tra Thomas, better than Kyle Turley, and also fit a critical need on the DL after the Carver and Pittman debacles.

Can you imagine the blowback had he been a bust like Andre Wadsworth or Grant Wistrom who were drafted ahead of him in the top ten?

Criticizing Ellis out of the history of Jerry-draft picks is incredibly anti-homerish.

Wistrom wasn't a draft bust for STL. He was just a free agency bust for Seattle. Also you're forgetting "Keef" Brooking, who was a 5 time pro bowler at MLB before he came here on his last legs, and arguably Hines Ward.

 

[ravidubey]

Wistrom wasn't a draft bust for STL. He was just a free agency bust for Seattle. Also you're forgetting "Keef" Brooking, who was a 5 time pro bowler at MLB before he came here on his last legs, and arguably Hines Ward.

I liked Brooking, though I always thought he was a bit small and wore down as a result. For a while in the 2000's he was one of the best at his position. Ward, though... good catch. I'd think he had a better career than Ellis.

My main point was just because Jerry and Joe Fans overrated Greg Ellis doesn't mean he wasn't an outstanding player.

 

[data]

Once the draft is over it's all academic as to whether someone should have been taken or someone different should have been selected. It just a topic to vent about. The only thing that really matters is once a player is selected will they produce. It's the only tangible thing that can be observed and graded. Again the rest is preferential venting and dialogue.

So we should equally pissed if our 1st rounder sucks as much as a 7th rounder? I would be pissed more about the 1st rounder sucking.

 

[L.T. Fan]

So we should equally pissed if our 1st rounder sucks as much as a 7th rounder? I would be pissed more about the 1st rounder sucking.

What does getting pissed help? It's history and the only thing getting pissed does is staying pissed. Life is too short to beat dead horses. It'd just a cycle of woulda, coulda, shoulda.

 

[Cotton]

What does getting passed help? It's history and the only thing getting pissed does is staying pissed. Life is too short to beat dead horses. It'd just a cycle of woulda, coulda, shoulda.

It's not about you getting pissed. It's about the conversation of the draft picks this teams take. If someone goes in the 1st then they are expected to maintain that draft status or they are a bust.

To try to rationalize picks any other way is silly.

 

[data]

What does getting passed help? It's history and the only thing getting pissed does is staying pissed. Life is too short to beat dead horses. It'd just a cycle of woulda, coulda, shoulda.