'Duck Dynasty': Phil Robertson anti-gay sermon surfaces

[Cowboy Hank]

I don't believe there's anything on earth harder than examining something you've believed your whole life, realizing it's wrong and stepping away from it. I don't know that I could have done it if I hadn't been such a rebellious antisocial piece of crap. It's the same thing that made me leave the republican party many years ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a staunch conservative but they don't actually exist in government any more. Sometimes you just have to accept that what you've believed all your life may not be true, and if you don't examine your beliefs and opinions with a critical eye regularly you become complacent and susceptible to being misled. Just my opinion, but I'm kind of weird that way. :)

By the way, if you go back to the music thread where I posted that song from my old band, that was written during my atheist days and was a direct reference to the "morons" who believed in higher powers. :)

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I don't believe there's anything on earth harder than examining something you've believed your whole life, realizing it's wrong and stepping away from it.

Meh, it's not that hard. I left Christianity behind many years ago.

Honestly though, I wonder how most Christians reconcile the scenario in their minds that a huge part of the reason that they're Christian is because of the random variable of the culture they were born into/grew up in. I don't think it's really debatable that one's culture greatly influences what belief system they subscribe to. Had they instead been born and raised in Saudi Arabi, odds are very, very high that the absolute belief that they have in Christianity would have instead been in Islam. Muslim people (and Jews, and Hindus, et al) also have faith, multiple experiences that they feel validate their faith, etc. Are those experiences/feelings not real?

 

[EZ22]

I just think it's really cool for the Christians that out of the thousands of religions that have existed in the history of humans, they won the lottery and got the one that was right. Way to go!

 

[NoDak]

I think it's really cool that you think it's really cool.

 

[EZ22]

I think it's really cool that you think it's really cool.

Awesome, bro!

 

[2233boys]

Thank you Hank. This can not be understated though:



You were born and raised with the Christian ideals and you accepted them. Are you suggesting that if you were born and raised in Kabul as a Muslim that you would have still decided that Christianity was the correct choice and converted? That's really the crux of my question.

People do convert from both to become Christians. In fact Jesus was a Jew as was the apostle Paul, the disciples and all the main players in the New Testament. I believe you asked your question with good intentions, but there isn't anyway any of us can answer it because that isn't our experience. Just as it would be impossible for a Muslim or Jew to answer. We all are going to answer yes because our faith is dear to us.

People of other religions are still converting to Christianity, Judaism and Islam today.

 

[Cotton]

I just think it's really cool for the Christians that out of the thousands of religions that have existed in the history of humans, they won the lottery and got the one that was right. Way to go!

~Garrett chest bump~

 

[BipolarFuk]

I just think it's really cool for the Christians that out of the thousands of religions that have existed in the history of humans, they won the lottery and got the one that was right. Way to go!

Yeah, I feel sorry for all those butt fucking Greeks who worshiped Zeus.

Guess they are all in hell or something.

 

[BipolarFuk]

According to the bible there is no difference between homosexuality and bestiality. Or between bestiality and adultery. Or between adultery and lying. In God's eyes sin is sin and He doesn't differentiate between different sins. He cannot look upon sin period. There are no degrees of sin in God's eyes, that's a human creation. He also doesn't differentiate between sin when He forgives us for our sins. Speaking out against sin and against the willful sinner is not hateful, whether it hits you personally or not. I don't get mad at my pastor when he preaches against divorce because I know he's not targeting me personally, he's talking about sin and sinful behavior.

Being a homosexual is NOT a sin. Engaging in homosexual acts is. Temptation is not a sin. Yielding to temptation is.

Nice to know there's no difference between a child molester and a guy who lies to his kid telling him Santa is real. Sin is sin.

Hitler....wasn't so bad. Killing 6 million Jews is akin to getting a blow job.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

People do convert from both to become Christians. In fact Jesus was a Jew as was the apostle Paul, the disciples and all the main players in the New Testament. I believe you asked your question with good intentions, but there isn't anyway any of us can answer it because that isn't our experience. Just as it would be impossible for a Muslim or Jew to answer. We all are going to answer yes because our faith is dear to us.

People of other religions are still converting to Christianity, Judaism and Islam today.

I understand that people convert to Christianity from other religions and to other religions from Christianity. It happens, but I think the vast majority of people stick with the predominant belief system of the culture in which they were raised (unless they abandon faith altogether).

You're correct in that I am asking this with good intention. I'm not looking to turn this into a trolling. It's just something that I've thought about and wondered how someone of the Christian faith works it out in their own mind. Since you replied I'll paste in this same thing I asked Hank later in the thread and maybe you'll care to speculate:

Honestly though, I wonder how most Christians reconcile the scenario in their minds that a huge part of the reason that they're Christian is because of the random variable of the culture they were born into/grew up in. I don't think it's really debatable that one's culture greatly influences what belief system they subscribe to. Had they instead been born and raised in Saudi Arabi, odds are very, very high that the absolute belief that they have in Christianity would have instead been in Islam. Muslim people (and Jews, and Hindus, et al) also have faith, multiple personal experiences that they feel validate their faith, etc. Are those experiences/feelings not real?

 

[2233boys]

I believe it is an impossible question to answer. I would like to think that I would convert but I can't know, no one could with any certainty. I like Hank went through a stage in my life where I turned from religion altogether in my late teens and early 20's. I came back.

Sorry bad habit didn't read the part in bold. I'm a skimmer. I can't answer anything about other peoples experiences, I can only testify to what my experiences have been.

 

[Cotton]

I believe it is an impossible question to answer. I would like to think that I would convert but I can't know, no one could with any certainty. I like Hank went through a stage in my life where I turned from religion altogether in my late teens and early 20's. I came back.

Sorry bad habit didn't read the part in bold. I'm a skimmer. I can't answer anything about other peoples experiences, I can only testify to what my experiences have been.

Correct.

 

[2233boys]

Thanks for the validation.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I believe it is an impossible question to answer.

Maybe it's impossible to say for sure but look at it this way: are you going to convert to Islam anytime soon? No, you are not. Why? Because you were brought up in a country where Christianity is the predominant belief system. You were exposed to it. You believe it. You go to church. You study the Bible. Your friends, family, and most of your co-workers are Christian (or at least identify as Christian if even they aren't devout). You have had many experiences in your life that you can point to and say those things validated your belief. Now, switch all that up but put yourself in an Islamic culture, swap out Bible for Koran and Christian for Muslim. So maybe it's not possible to say for sure, but you can certainly imagine the likely outcome.

I can't answer anything about other peoples experiences, I can only testify to what my experiences have been.

Fair enough, but realize that's the same thing a Muslim or Hindu or Jew would say to you. And you know that in their minds their experience/feelings/justification of faith are just as real as yours.

I know it comes down to faith. You have to have that faith or your religion is worthless. Other religions have just as much faith as yours though and it's just as real to them.

 

[2233boys]

I never suggested otherwise.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Nice to know there's no difference between a child molester and a guy who lies to his kid telling him Santa is real. Sin is sin.

Hitler....wasn't so bad. Killing 6 million Jews is akin to getting a blow job.

The Christain faith accepts this position as truth. Everyone is concieved and born in a sin state. No matter how good or bad they live, there is only one way to escape the punishment of being a sinner by birth and that is to have a rebirth through the salvation plan established through Jesus Christ. So you example of degrees of sinful acts are indeed irrelevant by this standard because by virtue of simply being born you (and I ) are hopelessly lost and seperated from God and there is only one plan acceptable to him that will reconcile you. This is the Christian faith to accept or reject.

 

[E_D_Guapo]

I never suggested otherwise.

OK, and I'm not trying to be accusatory. These are just questions that run through my own mind so I'm simply curious to see how people operating under a faith system like Christianity deal with it in their minds. You have your faith and you have to remain strong in it but there are things that have to challenge that faith and I'm interested in hearing how people deal with the conflict.

 

[skidadl]

Ed is putting out a really legit question here, IMO. I'd like to answer it the best that I can but that would take some time. I am hoping to get lucky tonight so maybe tomorrow.

 

[2233boys]

OK, and I'm not trying to be accusatory. These are just questions that run through my own mind so I'm simply curious to see how people operating under a faith system like Christianity deal with it in their minds. You have your faith and you have to remain strong in it but there are things that have to challenge that faith and I'm interested in hearing how people deal with the conflict.

I have had doubts and my faith has been tested. When tested or doubtful I read the Bible, pray, talk to others in my church and find peace. I'm not sure how others deal with those thoughts but that's how I deal with it. I think with any belief structure even those without a religious faith they have doubts and are tested in their belief systems. It all comes down to the strength of your faith/belief and your support system. That is why I believe it is necessary for people of faith to surround themselves with others of the same faith. It doesn't necessarily need to be a church but even a small group of friends.

Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."

I belong to a church and I attend every Sunday. But that church works for me, before I found that church it was just me, my wife and neighbor couple doing Bible study weekly.

I've never considered another faith and, like some have mentioned, I have tried to learn what their beliefs are to try and better understand them.

 

[Kbrown]

Nice to know there's no difference between a child molester and a guy who lies to his kid telling him Santa is real. Sin is sin.

Hitler....wasn't so bad. Killing 6 million Jews is akin to getting a blow job.

My Church recognizes the obvious degrees of sin and the mitigating circumstances surrounding them (addiction, actual malicious intent, etc.) but some of our fellow Christians think we aren't REAL Christians anyway, so, hey.

I do find humorous the other implication that, although atheists basically hold that the vast majority of humans in history have been fundamentally wrong about the nature of existence(while the atheist is obviously correct), religious believers are the arrogant ones for daring to have a set of convictions that diverges from that of other religious believers.