Cowboys at Eagles | Week 7 Game Day Chatter Thread | 10/20/2013

[Smitty]

Looks like that was Carter's guy and Wilcox had underneath responsibility and and adjusted late to compensate.

Ehh... I don't think so. Carter heads out towards the flat, though he has to fight through traffic to get there. Unless he just completely got his assignment wrong, but no one else is on the back out of the flat either.

I think Carter had the back, not the TE.

Maybe you meant Durant? He's the LB on the near side of the field to the camera view, and he drifts off towards the middle-deep of the field.

 

[NoDak]

He can keep saying it, he just loses all right to say I'm the only one who does it or to complain about it when I do like it's anything out of the ordinary for anyone else.

So sensitive.

 

[Deuce]

Carter follows the McCoy to the flat. Claiborne sticks with Cooper and Wilcox panics, gets caught in the jumble and watches his man streak down the field.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Carter follows the McCoy to the flat. Claiborne sticks with Cooper and Wilcox panics, gets caught in the jumble and watches his man streak down the field.

The part that confuses me is that Carter just stops at one point when he gets to the TE like he isn't sure which one to cover.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Closer to the Giants game than Eagles game.

And so what if they didn't say it? The logical implication of "Foles missed a bunch of throw unforced" is that if he makes good throws at a normal rate, even for him, he racks up a bunch more yards and at least 1 more TD (on that one he underthrew Avant that Wilcox picked that got overturned by shitty reffing).

So average QBs don't miss throws? You're implying that an average QB doesn't miss that throw to Avant sometimes. Sorry you're just talking out of your ass in these statements. It's hard to believe Barkley didn't come in and light it up since all these guys were wide open at all times.

I do like your backhanded way of admitting you're wrong by saying "Closer to the Giants game than Eagles game"

 

[Smitty]

So average QBs don't miss throws?

Rarely miss the number of, and quality of, open receivers that Foles missed on Sunday.

You're implying that an average QB doesn't miss that throw to Avant sometimes.

No, I'm implying that on an average day, an average QB will complete that throw.

We benefitted from a QB misfiring... well in excess of the normal number of times a defense will benefit from a QB misfiring. You have to take that into account. You cannot count on our performance in the secondary on Sunday to yield similar results every week, because the majority of the time, an average performance against that same coverage will have significantly more success.

Sorry you're just talking out of your ass in these statements. It's hard to believe Barkley didn't come in and light it up since all these guys were wide open at all times.

Sorry, I'm not. The Eagles had WRs running free and Foles missed them. You need to admit that.

Barkley came in and faced the prevent defense, the easiest defense in the world to complete passes against, and still tossed three interceptions. He was even worse. He was beyond bad. You can't read anything into what we did to Barkley because it was different coverage by that point.

I do like your backhanded way of admitting your wrong by saying "Closer to the Giants game than Eagles game"

Well, that's what I said pages ago, so it's the same thing. I've been tempering that statement for pages now. You are the one that is pretending it's more outlandish to say than it actually is.... because you feel the need to win this argument so you can apply it to your incorrect theory that DBs are worth more than they really are.

 

[Deuce]

The part that confuses me is that Carter just stops at one point when he gets to the TE like he isn't sure which one to cover.

He was reacting to McCoy. It looks like McCoy run where the tackle was lined up and has his body positioned as if it could go upfield. That's when Carter delays his motion. Then McCoy drifts to the flat and Carter takes off again.

 

[boozeman]

Really? Have you seen Stafford play? The guy misses a ton of throws. He also has basically no touch on his throws. Stafford isn't an elite QB in this league. He is more in the ballpark of RGIII when it comes to hitting on throws. He just throws the ball a lot more then RGIII because his defense isn't that good and he can't run with the ball.

People must have forgotten the last time we played Detroit. That's how we jumped out to enormous lead we pissed away. Stafford was way off. And he is a very streaky passer.

 

[boozeman]

You're right, it's the other 5 games we've played this year that are the outliers.

Meanwhile even booze acknowledges that Foles was horrible. You can't accept that because you don't like the truth.... speaking of not able to admit when you are wrong.

Yeah, I said Foles was horrid. But that doesn't mean an "average" QB gets 300 yards. Big difference in the wording there.

 

[Smitty]

Yeah, I said Foles was horrid. But that doesn't mean an "average" QB gets 300 yards. Big difference in the wording there.

It doesn't guarantee it, but it certainly means an average day is gonna yield results more like the Giants game than the Eagles game.

 

[boozeman]

It doesn't guarantee it, but it certainly means an average day is gonna yield results more like the Giants game than the Eagles game.

No it doesn't. The Giants game was much more than a "300 yard game"...it was 25% more. An "average" day is not going to produce 450 like Manning or Rivers (401).

Just claim hyperbole and we can move along.

 

[Cotton]

No it doesn't. The Giants game was much more than a "300 yard game"...it was 25% more. An "average" day is not going to produce 450 like Manning or Rivers (401).

Just claim hyperbole and we can move along.

Good one.

 

[Smitty]

No it doesn't. The Giants game was much more than a "300 yard game"...it was 25% more. An "average" day is not going to produce 450 like Manning or Rivers (401).

Just claim hyperbole and we can move along.

So what do you think if, instead of Foles playing like he did on Sunday, it had been Phillip Rivers at QB?

How do you think things unfold then?

Same results? 80 yards passing through 3 quarters and 3 points? Or do you think they probably have accumulated a lot more yards and points?

Say it's 300 yards.... that is "more like" 401 or 450 than it is like 80. You would agree with me that 300 is closer to 400 than it is to 80, right?

 

[boozeman]

So what do you think if, instead of Foles playing like he did on Sunday, it had been Phillip Rivers at QB?

How do you think things unfold then?

Same results? 80 yards passing through 3 quarters and 3 points? Or do you think they probably have accumulated a lot more yards and points?

Is Philip Rivers an "average" QB? That's what this argument is hinged upon...that "average" comment.

 

[Smitty]

Is Philip Rivers an "average" QB? That's what this argument is hinged upon...that "average" comment.

Actually, its not. This is exactly when I first made the comment:

I think it means exactly that. The quality of coverage against the Eagles yields results that were probably a lot closer to the Giants or Chargers game, if the QB throwing the ball was Manning or Rivers.

The very next page, I said:

No, I said if Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers was playing QB for the Eagles Sunday, they would have amassed yardage more like to what they did to us in the Giants or Chargers games, than what happened with Nick Foles on Sunday.​

Only waaaaaaaaaaaay later does C-rock ask me:

So average QBs don't miss throws? You're implying that an average QB doesn't miss that throw to Avant sometimes.​

To which I said:

No, I'm implying that on an average day, an average QB will complete that throw.

We benefitted from a QB misfiring... well in excess of the normal number of times a defense will benefit from a QB misfiring. You have to take that into account.​

.............

I never said an average QB would have put up 400, ever.

This argument is about whether elite QBs would have torched that same coverage. And they would have. What I said was, the coverage was better.... but that a good QB still would have racked up a very good statistical day against our D, because of all the drops and missed throws and reads that we took advantage of. A good QB like Rivers or Manning doesn't have those mistakes.

Hyperbole claim refuted.... FACE

 

[boozeman]

Actually, its not. This is exactly when I first made the comment:

I think it means exactly that. The quality of coverage against the Eagles yields results that were probably a lot closer to the Giants or Chargers game, if the QB throwing the ball was Manning or Rivers.

The very next page, I said:

No, I said if Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers was playing QB for the Eagles Sunday, they would have amassed yardage more like to what they did to us in the Giants or Chargers games, than what happened with Nick Foles on Sunday.

Only waaaaaaaaaaaay later does C-rock ask me:

So average QBs don't miss throws? You're implying that an average QB doesn't miss that throw to Avant sometimes.

To which I said:

No, I'm implying that on an average day, an average QB will complete that throw.

We benefitted from a QB misfiring... well in excess of the normal number of times a defense will benefit from a QB misfiring. You have to take that into account.

.............

I never said an average QB would have put up 400, ever.

It is still the same, you are still mincing words and moving the goalposts.

Everyone else is concentrating on the "average" part of the Tweet. You are suggesting that if Rivers or Manning played last week for the Eagles, they'd put up over 400 yards.

I am not denying that Foles was awful. He missed every deep throw and looked about as bad as Freeman looked Monday night.

But putting up 300 yards from an average QB is an achievement, meanwhile guys like Manning and Rivers can do it in their sleep. Even Romo had a 300 yard game and people felt he played a bad game.

An average QB might have had a TD or two, 250 yards maybe, but to act like we got away with murder in selling a decent defensive effort short. If the Eagles had their way, they would have run a lot more and that would have made Foles behave differently and they might not have taken so many shots. That was their gameplan and we called them on it. It didn't work out.

 

[Smitty]

It is still the same, you are still mincing words and moving the goalposts.

The only thing that is the same, is my argument.

Everyone else is concentrating on the "average" part of the Tweet. You are suggesting that if Rivers or Manning played last week for the Eagles, they'd put up over 400 yards.

C-rock is the one who brought up average, not me. I repeated Manning or Rivers from the beginning.

I am suggesting that if Rivers or Manning played for the Eagles last week, the results would have been closer to 400 than 80. "More like" the Giants or Chargers game, I said.

300 is closer to 400 than 300 is to 80.

I am not denying that Foles was awful. He missed every deep throw and looked about as bad as Freeman looked Monday night.

But putting up 300 yards from an average QB is an achievement, meanwhile guys like Manning and Rivers can do it in their sleep. Even Romo had a 300 yard game and people felt he played a bad game.

Which is why if Manning or Rivers had been the QB.... they would have done it to us last weekend.

An average QB might have had a TD or two, 250 yards maybe, but to act like we got away with murder in selling a decent defensive effort short. If the Eagles had their way, they would have run a lot more and that would have made Foles behave differently and they might not have taken so many shots. That was their gameplan and we called them on it. It didn't work out.

Great. Except I didn't say an average QB would have thrown for 400 yards, ever. You are the one fixing on that word, I never said an average QB would have dominated us, just that they would have been better.

I said Manning or Rivers would have had a day more like the Chargers or Giants game.

C-rock is the one that asked me "So you're saying an average QB doesn't miss throws." My injection of the term average is in answer to that question and it carried no suggestion of how many yards, only that an average QB would have been significantly better.

 

[Smitty]

Let's put it this way. Do you agree with me that if Manning or Rivers had been playing on Sunday, they would have thrown for about 300 or more against that same coverage? You yourself just said that they do it in their sleep.

 

[boozeman]

The only thing that is the same, is my argument.


C-rock is the one who brought up average, not me. I repeated Manning or Rivers from the beginning.

For no reason other than to...well...damn, I have no idea what point you were trying to make, other than a real good QB does a number on us...well no shit. That wasn't what the damn Tweet was about.

Hey I can do the same thing, let me just point out to you people to settle down. Brees and Rodgers will kill us. Got it? Good. Those are great QBs and they will do that to everyone.

I am suggesting that if Rivers or Manning played for the Eagles last week, the results would have been closer to 400 than 80. "More like" the Giants or Chargers game, I said.

300 is closer to 400 than 300 is to 80.

I am just going to laugh at the math lesson.

C-rock is the one that asked me "So you're saying an average QB doesn't miss throws." My injection of the term average is in answer to that question and it carried no suggestion of how many yards, only that an average QB would have been significantly better.

Again...claim hyperbole so we can end this shit discussion. You spouted off, changed and spun the whole basis of the argument and typed a lot defending that position.

 

[boozeman]

Let's put it this way. Do you agree with me that if Manning or Rivers had been playing on Sunday, they would have thrown for about 300 or more against that same coverage? You yourself just said that they do it in their sleep.

Maybe, maybe not. We didn't shut down either of their running games to the extent we did Foles. We also didn't play nearly as much man, so I have no idea how they would have responded to that.

Am I waving a towel over the fact that there were plays to be made? No. But when you take an NFC OPOTW in Foles and reduce him to 80 yards and hold his offense to 3 points, you played a decent game. Instead of being a little pleased we didn't get diced up, you want to suggest we got lucky. Could be...but then again, we made them one dimensional and when that happens you are playing decent defense.