Charles Haley elected to the HOF

[ravidubey]

until last night?

Maybe, if Butler had run the length of the field and scored a TD with 0 seconds left on the clock.

Harrison was the best at his position for like 2 years. He had only 3 seasons with 10 or more sacks, never led the league in sacks, only finished with 71. His numbers don't get him in and his reputation as a dirty player will hurt him with a lot of the voters too.

IMO, he wasn't as good as Lloyd, Gildon or Porter.

I think he was definitely superior to the three you mention, though his stats will probably keep him out of the HOF. Just seems dumb for stats to matter so much.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Maybe, if Butler had run the length of the field and scored a TD with 0 seconds left on the clock.



I think he was definitely superior to the three you mention, though his stats will probably keep him out of the HOF. Just seems dumb for stats to matter so much.

If longevity didn't matter we'd have to put everyone who had a great season and a couple of good ones in the HOF. He was All-Pro twice. So was Bob Sanders, Nnamdi Asomugha and Albert Haynesworth. Those kinds of guys don't go in the HOF for a reason.

 

[ravidubey]

If longevity didn't matter we'd have to put everyone who had a great season and a couple of good ones in the HOF. He was All-Pro twice. So was Bob Sanders, Nnamdi Asomugha and Albert Haynesworth. Those kinds of guys don't go in the HOF for a reason.

Harrison was AP All Pro four years in a row... kinda dominant if you ask me. BTW, Troy Aikman was never an AP All Pro.

This is why it's hugely important for numbers and special team lists to be secondary. That's how highlight hitters like Steve Atwater make the all-1990's team instead of Darren Woodson who was a key cog on a top-ten defense in three Superbowl seasons.

Harrison was a dominant player on his team which would not have won a championship or gone to another without him. He may be overshadowed by Polamalu, but only because of Polamalu's role on that 2005 team.

I, a serious Cowboys fan, am not overly keen on DeMarcus Ware being in the Hall of Fame. I think he was great, but seemed to focus a lot on stats and sacks vs. stepping up and getting wins (New Orleans 2009 a strong exception).

I love the guy, and he probably belongs in the ROH, but the HOF is about greatness and not just longevity and numbers.

 

[data]

Performance and longevity are the most important traits in what I think is a hall of famer. In Jerome Bettis, I think the voters gave too much credit for longevity.

Cuz really, Emmitt was a sure fire hall of famer after 1999, maybe even before that. He could have retired at being #3 all time rushing and still be a lock. The extra 3,000 yards he put on in the four seasons after did nothing.

However, i think the last four subpar years for Bettis did make the difference, which is bullshit. He was a backup with 338 rushing yards all season when they won the super bowl. You don't see Bernie Kosar or Drew bledsoe getting that same benefit. I can go on.

For me, 4 years as a top notch player isn't enough. That's why Terrell Davis nor sterling sharpe get my vote.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Performance and longevity are the most important traits in what I think is a hall of famer. In Jerome Bettis, I think the voters gave too much credit for longevity.

Cuz really, Emmitt was a sure fire hall of famer after 1999, maybe even before that. He could have retired at being #3 all time rushing and still be a lock. The extra 3,000 yards he put on in the four seasons after did nothing.

However, i think the last four subpar years for Bettis did make the difference, which is bullshit. He was a backup with 338 rushing yards all season when they won the super bowl. You don't see Bernie Kosar or Drew bledsoe getting that same benefit. I can go on.

For me, 4 years as a top notch player isn't enough. That's why Terrell Davis nor sterling sharpe get my vote.

Bettis was the beneficiary of being in the media and getting the exposure plus the connections to voters afforded by his position in broadcasting. That can accelerate the process for some who might not otherwise get a thought under normal circumstances.

 

[data]

I think Adrian Peterson is a good bellwether. Ignoring the assault charges, if AP doesn't gain another yard, does he get your HOF vote?

if not, what would he have to do? Three more seasons of ~900 subpar rushing yards? One more 1,300+ season?

 

[ravidubey]

Bettis was the beneficiary of being in the media and getting the exposure plus the connections to voters afforded by his position in broadcasting. That can accelerate the process for some who might not otherwise get a thought under normal circumstances.

Not to mention winning a Superbowl in his hometown in his final game. That plus "The Bus" nickname ensured he got in. It's a media-awarded honor where image really, really matters.

 

[data]

Bettis was the beneficiary of being in the media and getting the exposure plus the connections to voters afforded by his position in broadcasting. That can accelerate the process for some who might not otherwise get a thought under normal circumstances.

i disagree. His last four seasons, he put up 666, 811, 941 and 368 yards. If he retired before these four seasons, he finishes 12th all-time rushing and no Super Bowl. Even with his media connections, he doesn't get in

How these last four seasons contribute to his HOF case is beyond me.

 

[L.T. Fan]

i disagree. His last four seasons, he put up 666, 811, 941 and 368 yards. If he retired before these four seasons, he finishes 12th all-time rushing and no Super Bowl. Even with his media connections, he doesn't get in

How these last four seasons contribute to his HOF case is beyond me.

What is it you are disagreeing with. I am saying he was elected due to influence rather than performance. I think we are on the same page there.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Harrison was AP All Pro four years in a row... kinda dominant if you ask me. BTW, Troy Aikman was never an AP All Pro.

This is why it's hugely important for numbers and special team lists to be secondary. That's how highlight hitters like Steve Atwater make the all-1990's team instead of Darren Woodson who was a key cog on a top-ten defense in three Superbowl seasons.

Harrison was a dominant player on his team which would not have won a championship or gone to another without him. He may be overshadowed by Polamalu, but only because of Polamalu's role on that 2005 team.

I, a serious Cowboys fan, am not overly keen on DeMarcus Ware being in the Hall of Fame. I think he was great, but seemed to focus a lot on stats and sacks vs. stepping up and getting wins (New Orleans 2009 a strong exception).

I love the guy, and he probably belongs in the ROH, but the HOF is about greatness and not just longevity and numbers.

Bob Sanders was a dominant player and key to the Colts SB win. Does he deserve to go in?

 

[ravidubey]

Bob Sanders was a dominant player and key to the Colts SB win. Does he deserve to go in?

Tom Brady never chimed in out of nowhere that he'd celebrate if Bob Sanders ever threatened to retire. Harrison was all-pro four years straight. Show me many defensive players especially linebackers who achieve that while also leading their team to multiple Superbowls in the same stretch. Sanders was all-pro two years, but had his career not been so injury-riddled he'd have to get serious consideration.

If you asked me if I'd rather have DeMarcus Ware or James Harrison on my team facing Tom Brady in the final drive of the Superbowl protecting a 4 point lead, I take Harrison ten times out of ten. And I'm a serious Cowboys homer.

I'm not saying Harrison is a first ballot lock, just that he definitely belongs on a ballot one of these days.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Tom Brady never chimed in out of nowhere that he'd celebrate if Bob Sanders ever threatened to retire. Harrison was all-pro four years straight. Show me many defensive players especially linebackers who achieve that while also leading their team to multiple Superbowls in the same stretch. Sanders was all-pro two years, but had his career not been so injury-riddled he'd have to get serious consideration.

If you asked me if I'd rather have DeMarcus Ware or James Harrison on my team facing Tom Brady in the final drive of the Superbowl protecting a 4 point lead, I take Harrison ten times out of ten. And I'm a serious Cowboys homer.

I'm not saying Harrison is a first ballot lock, just that he definitely belongs on a ballot one of these days.

He was first team all-pro twice, second team all-pro twice. It's not really all-pro, IMO, unless it's first team. It's more like a pro bowl in that case.

After all of the Cowboys players, like 6 time all-pro and Super Bowl MVP Chuck Howley and all-decade team members Harvey Martin and Cliff Harris, that have been snubbed, fuck this flash in the pan Lebeau-product Steeler getting in over them.

More to your actual point: One of your second team All-Pro seasons he had 8.5 sacks and in the other he had 10 and the Steelers missed the playoffs. That's a pretty low bar for "dominance".

He had 2 great seasons, 2008 when he made 16 sacks and ran back an INT for a TD in the SB and 2010 when he had 10.5 sacks but added 4 more in the playoffs on the way to a SB loss to the Packers. Other than that he was a decent player whose rep was based on dirty hits.

Let's face it, Tom Brady wanted Harrison to retire because he didn't want a concussion from being hit helmet to helmet by the guy, not because he was a legendary pass rusher.

 

[dallen]

Bettis was the beneficiary of being in the media and getting the exposure plus the connections to voters afforded by his position in broadcasting. That can accelerate the process for some who might not otherwise get a thought under normal circumstances.

True, but Woodson is in the media now too and it doesn't seem to help him

 

[L.T. Fan]

True, but Woodson is in the media now too and it doesn't seem to help him

It will moreso than than if he wasnt part of the of it. It's no guarentee but it is sometimes a difference maker.

 

[ravidubey]

Let's face it, Tom Brady wanted Harrison to retire because he didn't want a concussion from being hit helmet to helmet by the guy, not because he was a legendary pass rusher.

Probably right. I'm not going to bat very long for James fricking Harrison. He's an example of a key building block on a championship team without the stats that seem to dominate HOF discussions. Casey Hampton is another one. You won't find many stats for Hampton or Richard Seymour, but they were as valuable as it gets.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Probably right. I'm not going to bat very long for James fricking Harrison. He's an example of a key building block on a championship team without the stats that seem to dominate HOF discussions. Casey Hampton is another one. You won't find many stats for Hampton or Richard Seymour, but they were as valuable as it gets.

Seymour is a guy that's close. Probably would be a hall of famer had he played in the Tampa 2 and been free to rack up sacks.

Hampton was a very good NT. But if we're putting a NT in the HOF I'd go Ted Washington 10 times out of 10 over him, probably Sam Adams before him too.

I think you're a little too caught up on players being lucky enough to play on a great team, especially now. In this era of salary caps, the great players are pretty evenly spread out. It's more of a team sport now than ever. The teams with the fewest flaws, who make the fewest mistakes win the most games.

That's the problem we have had for years, plenty of talent on a bad team with glaring flaws. Just this season we got to see what a competent team looks like, even though arguably we had less talent than in previous years.

 

[data]

I wish the hall of fame would induct units. For a team game, it's a disservice to only recognize individuals. This would also help to promote the statistic-challenged positions like OL, DL.

If im at the hall of fame to learn history, just knowing Larry Allen does little to reflect the dominance our OL unit had for a 5-year stretch. Mention Nate Newton, tuinei, Big E, step, gogan, gesek.

Lets learn about the Purple People Eaters, New York sack exchange, the Hogs, the Killer B's, Greatest Show on Turf, etc.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I wish the hall of fame would induct units. For a team game, it's a disservice to only recognize individuals. This would also help to promote the statistic-challenged positions like OL, DL.

If im at the hall of fame to learn history, just knowing Larry Allen does little to reflect the dominance our OL unit had for a 5-year stretch. Mention Nate Newton, tuinei, Big E, step, gogan, gesek.

Lets learn about the Purple People Eaters, New York sack exchange, the Hogs, the Killer B's, Greatest Show on Turf, etc.

That's a very cool idea. A lot like inducting bands into the rock and roll hall of fame.

 

[Carl]

Polamalu, Harrison, and yeah, probably Rapist are deserving. On top of being an intimidating force, Harrison had the greatest defensive play in Superbowl history. Both he and Polamalu were the best at their position for years.

Even then without the Rapist they don't come close in 2008.

Ravi I think of those 3, only Big Ben is a certain HOFer. Homerism aside, I'd take Woodson certainly over Polamalu and maybe over Harrison. I am a big fan of Darren Woodson.

 

[ravidubey]

Ravi I think of those 3, only Big Ben is a certain HOFer. Homerism aside, I'd take Woodson certainly over Polamalu and maybe over Harrison. I am a big fan of Darren Woodson.

I love me some Woodson and I can only imagine what he'd have been like behind a true pass-rushing run-stuffing front like Polamalu had for many of his years in Pittsburgh.

I think though the way LeBeau built his whole defense around Polamalu's unique ability to read and react tilts things in Troy's favor. Then there is how the defense would routinely go from dominant to average the moment Polamalu left the lineup. The same thing happened to Dallas' defense from 2003 to 2004 mainly because of Woody's absence, but the difference wasn't as obvious as it was with Polamalu. I mean, things would almost fall apart the moment he'd leave the lineup.

Harrison was great, but it's really hard to compare him with Woody since their positions were so different.