Arizona passes controversial anti-gay bill

junk said:
Federal Civil Rights Act?
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Doesn't apply to who you serve and who you don't in a private business environment. Right to refuse service to anyone.
 
junk said:
Just be careful of the doors that it opens. Would you feel the same way if you were denied service because of your religious belief? Or skin color?

That is what I find so hypocritical. Religious groups throw a damn shit fit if there is even a whiff of them being denied anything due to their religion. Then they want to turn around and use their religion as a reason to deny basic rights and services to another group.
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Well, I won't deny that both groups are hypocritical. Denying someone service for those reasons is just terrible morals and even worse business sense.

I honestly wouldn't get terribly offended. I kind of expect to get dirty looks from folks and lost friendships because of my beliefs. I've been there plenty of times. I blame that mostly on my brethren who have ruined it for those who are Jesus lovers but not trying to be "sin eradicaters" of the universe.

I do realize that my initial response was very simplistic. Honestly I was shooting from the hip and hoping for a good dust up.

The question still begs though...is it better to make more laws or just let Darwin/capitalism weed out the bigots?
 
Why the hell would you 'deny service' to anyone? Money is money, you morons.

You want the gubbmint to stay out of your business? Try staying out of people's bedrooms first.
 
skidadl said:
Well, I won't deny that both groups are hypocritical. Denying someone service for those reasons is just terrible morals and even worse business sense.

I honestly wouldn't get terribly offended. I kind of expect to get dirty looks from folks and lost friendships because of my beliefs. I've been there plenty of times. I blame that mostly on my brethren who have ruined it for those who are Jesus lovers but not trying to be "sin eradicaters" of the universe.

I do realize that my initial response was very simplistic. Honestly I was shooting from the hip and hoping for a good dust up.

The question still begs though...is it better to make more laws or just let Darwin/capitalism weed out the bigots?
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As a conservative the only correct answer is the latter.
 
Bob Roberts said:
Why the hell would you 'deny service' to anyone? Money is money, you morons.

You want the gubbmint to stay out of your business? Try staying out of people's bedrooms first.
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I would agree with this.
 
skidadl said:
I mean, come on. Do you honestly think that a company with a policy like this could make it in the real world?

I could never or would never want to deny a gay person service. To me that is just disgusting behavior.

But the deal is, if someone wants to have stupid religious convictions they should be able to with their hard earned money.

Still, if someone practiced this they would be out of business in a hurry like the people who owned a donuts shop or wedding shop of some kid.
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http://kfor.com/2014/02/06/graphic-language-enid-restaurant-owner-gets-heat-for-alleged-discrimination/
 
Bob Roberts said:
Why the hell would you 'deny service' to anyone? Money is money, you morons.

You want the gubbmint to stay out of your business? Try staying out of people's bedrooms first.
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Never understood this rhetoric, since most all of the old "sodomy" laws are off the books. Now it's usually, "Stay out of my bedroom.... by subsidizing my birth control and abortions!!" This law doesn't criminalize gays doing it.

Anyway, I don't like this law if it applies to two guys who happen to look or act gay or whatever. I do have a problem with wedding planners and bakers getting sued for choosing not to offer their services to gay weddings, which has happened several times in other states. That is a case of using the banner of civil rights to force people to violate their consciences, IMO.
 
pdom said:
I'd like to get rid if all the ADA rules - handicap ramps, wheelchair lifts, signage. As a business owner, talk about a waste of my money for a non-profitable set of customers.
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I'm struggling with how this applies. Please enlighten me.
 
Kbrown said:
Never understood this rhetoric, since most all of the old "sodomy" laws are off the books. Now it's usually, "Stay out of my bedroom.... by subsidizing my birth control and abortions!!" This law doesn't criminalize gays doing it.

Anyway, I don't like this law if it applies to two guys who happen to look or act gay or whatever. I do have a problem with wedding planners and bakers getting sued for choosing not to offer their services to gay weddings, which has happened several times in other states. That is a case of using the banner of civil rights to force people to violate their consciences, IMO.
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This cuts both ways as far as violating their consciences.
 
pdom said:
Well, If we are talking about government telling me about how to run my business, the government mandates ADA regulations. I have to make it ADA accessible or else I get fined/shutdown. I'm mandated to provide a certain amount of ADA parking spots, provide $50k capex wheelchair lift even if my store has one step. If a legitimate two story building, then $125k for an elevator when it doesn't provide a value add for 99% of clients.

To obtain any permits for building improvements, I have to update to the latest ADA code, so handrails, signage, bathrooms, etc.
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I feel like that's a completely different thing.
 
pdom said:
Well, skid mentioned being a racist bastard all he wants.

If you are solely focusing on groups of people based on religious beliefs, then just pick a religion that says the wheelchaired, sick and crippled are weak sinners that should be left for dead.
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That's a bit of a reach.
 
Iamtdg said:
Doesn't apply to who you serve and who you don't in a private business environment. Right to refuse service to anyone.
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I don't think so. I think you can only refuse service if there is a legitimate business need.

42 U.S.C. §2000a (a)All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
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http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/title2.php
 
Bob Roberts said:
Why the hell would you 'deny service' to anyone? Money is money, you morons.

You want the gubbmint to stay out of your business? Try staying out of people's bedrooms first.
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I'm hoping that you aren't addressing me because I would never ever deny service to anyone unless they are miserable people that I don't wanta deal with.

I just think people should be able to do whatever they want with what they own. If you own it you are free to run it into the ground of you want. Bigoted business owners don't stay in business long.

I don't follow the line of thinking that since one group of people are getting a raw deal by the government that other groups should too. How out we just stop making new dumb laws and them work in the dumb ones that have already been made?
 
pdom said:
I'd like to get rid if all the ADA rules - handicap ramps, wheelchair lifts, signage. As a business owner, talk about a waste of my money for a non-profitable set of customers.
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I agree, gay people are a lot like handicap people. I kid I kid.
 
Why would a gay person demand to give their money to someone who hates them? Go down the street to a other restaurant. I wouldn't give money to someone who was trying to hurt me. Screw that.
 
I don't think the law is designed to let people kick gays out of their burger joint. I think it's specifically to shield people in the marriage related businesses from having to work for gay couples and to some extent participate in gay marriage, which if they consider their business a partly religious enterprise they might object to.

Personally, I think any wedding business should be thrilled that there could be a short term wedding boom as soon as a state allows gay marriage. Gays average a higher income than straight people, so it's a lucrative demographic.
 
I think this is a stupid law if its passed- but I gotta be honest, I think stuff like this is just the beginning for the gay crowd.

The problem is the gays want to force every state to recognize their right to be married and have equal rights. OK...I'm fine with that...AS LONG as everyone else's rights aren't trampled in the process.

If the MAJORITY of a voting segment in a state votes against gays being married or certain gay rights, then that should be it. If you are gay and in a state that's not gay-friendly, then move to a state that allows gay marriage or the gay rights that suit you.

Basically, I don't have a huge issue with gay rights, but I have a huge problem with a judge basically stomping laws that are passed by a legal vote- whether its gays, discrimination, illegals, tax laws...whatever.

The basic fundamental right and wishes of the voter and the voting majority are nullified because of a small minority and a judge. That's scary, IMO.
 
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UncleMilti said:
I think this is a stupid law if its passed- but I gotta be honest, I think stuff like this is just the beginning for the gay crowd.

The problem is the gays want to force every state to recognize their right to be married and have equal rights. OK...I'm fine with that...AS LONG as everyone else's rights aren't trampled in the process.

If the MAJORITY of a voting segment in a state votes against gays being married or certain gay rights, then that should be it. If you are gay and in a state that's not gay-friendly, then move to a state that allows gay marriage or the gay rights that suit you.

Basically, I don't have a huge issue with gay rights, but I have a huge problem with a judge basically stomping laws that are passed by a legal vote- whether its gays, discrimination, illegals, tax laws...whatever.

The basic fundamental right and wishes of the voter and the voting majority are nullified because of a small minority and a judge. That's scary, IMO.
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State's rights, baby! :towel
 
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