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townsend said:
Keeping his job's pretty moot. By that standard his single start in a loss against Philadelphia in 2013 won him the starting job for Buffalo. With 20-20 hindsight I think Denver and Chicago would take back those decisions. They both went for a first rounder over a proven commodity.
It's the Steve DeBerg effect, people will always give up on a journeyman if they think they have the next "franchise" QB.
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Well hell then, after he came to Dallas and sat under Wison's tutelage again he improved enough to get a starting job again. Is that what you are saying? You can't have it both ways. He was either developed well in his early career or he wasn't good enough to hold the jobs he was given. You now seem to think that Denver and Chicago made a mistake. That would indicate he was developed well.
 
L.T. Fan said:
Well hell then, after he came to Dallas and sat under Wison's tutelage again he improved enough to get a starting job again. Is that what you are saying? You can't have it both ways. He was either developed well in his early career or he wasn't good enough to hold the jobs he was given. You now seem to think that Denver and Chicago made a mistake. That would indicate he was developed well.
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Orton under Wade Wilson played poorly. Orton after Wade Wilson left Chicago played well. Just like Alex Smith played better when John Harbaugh showed up in San Fran. Orton played better when a passable QB coach showed up. IDGAF if Orton was or wasn't given a starting position. The fact that Tebow was drafted by, and named the starter of, a team that Orton was benched on is an indictment of the team. Same with Chicago trading for Cutler.

In Dallas, Aikman had the worst (and final) season of his career playing with Wade Wilson as his QB coach (he came off of a pretty decent 1999 season). The fact that Romo is the only QB ever who played like a starter while Wade Wilson was coaching him shows a pretty shitty track record. Especially since Romo pretty clearly regressed after Wade Wilson returned to Dallas. 2007 was the beginning of the "interception a game" era Tony, who also threw 5 picks against a shitty Buffalo team.
 
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L.T. Fan said:
There has been no one to develop except McGee. All others have been pros that were picked up for backups. Better situational football? What does that mean?
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Playing more conservative when we're winning, not going all out to make the play when he needs to take care of the football. You know that's what I meant. That's why I referenced the Detroit, NYJ and Green Bay games earlier.

Also, you're only counting draft picks. We should be able to to have one of the myriad 3rd string/practice squad guys make it into the #2 spot by now for one year.

And, if he's not responsible for Romo because guys like Garrett and Linehan are more hands on with the star, how is he not responsible for at least getting the backups ready to play? Did Weeden's performance against AZ look like he was well coached and had command of the offense to you?

Your defense of Wilson only makes sense if your expectations for him are Zero.

You can make excuses and blame the players for any coach, eventually, you want a coach who has at least one accomplishment on his resume.
 
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Jiggyfly said:
If the head coach is not the one establishing better situational football playing, the QB coach can't do anything to help that.

I have no real thoughts on Wilson because nobody really knows what is asked of him, but it is funny that Romo has improved dramatically in TO's over the last 3 years yet Wilson gets no stroke for that.

With Garrett giving Romo the unequivocal green light there is not much a QB coach can do.
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I'll respond to this twice since I don't think people read posts that aren't directed towards them. If Garrett was responsible for Romo, what about getting the backups ready to play? Did Weeden look well coached against AZ?

There's only so many years you can say: "It's always the players fault." about a coach. He didn't develop anyone here during the Campo years. He didn't develop anyone in Chicago and Orton dropped to third string there before having his career resurrected with better coaching in Denver. Romo developed without his help and he hasn't developed anyone since.

This guy has been in the league for more than a decade and he has yet to have a single accomplishment in his coaching career.
 
p1_ said:
The very willingness to be this person says it all about Wilson.
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That's a dust in the wind statement. It says nothing other than he likes working for the Dallas organization and living in the area.
 
townsend said:
Orton under Wade Wilson played poorly. Orton after Wade Wilson left Chicago played well. Just like Alex Smith played better when John Harbaugh showed up in San Fran. Orton played better when a passable QB coach showed up. IDGAF if Orton was or wasn't given a starting position. The fact that Tebow was drafted by, and named the starter of, a team that Orton was benched on is an indictment of the team. Same with Chicago trading for Cutler.

In Dallas, Aikman had the worst (and final) season of his career playing with Wade Wilson as his QB coach (he came off of a pretty decent 1999 season). The fact that Romo is the only QB ever who played like a starter while Wade Wilson was coaching him shows a pretty shitty track record. Especially since Romo pretty clearly regressed after Wade Wilson returned to Dallas. 2007 was the beginning of the "interception a game" era Tony, who also threw 5 picks against a shitty Buffalo team.
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Your examples are not compelling. Orton was a young player under Wilson. He was bound to get better and did. Aikman was on his last legs and it wouldnt matter who the coach was Aikman was going to play his way.. He ws developed beyond needing anyone. You say Romo has regressed under Wilson but the stats will dispute that. Romo has gotten better with time and an improved OL. Without a coach it would have happened. These are interesting thoughts but really don't directly indicate anything that says Wilson is the catylist to it.
 
Clay_Allison said:
I'll respond to this twice since I don't think people read posts that aren't directed towards them. If Garrett was responsible for Romo, what about getting the backups ready to play? Did Weeden look well coached against AZ?

There's only so many years you can say: "It's always the players fault." about a coach. He didn't develop anyone here during the Campo years. He didn't develop anyone in Chicago and Orton dropped to third string there before having his career resurrected with better coaching in Denver. Romo developed without his help and he hasn't developed anyone since.

This guy has been in the league for more than a decade and he has yet to have a single accomplishment in his coaching career.
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Yes he has been in the league a long time and doesn't have a sterling resume. That's exactly my point. He is apparently good enough to stay employeed but not an over achiver. That says he is average at best and somewhat invisable but it doesn't say he is a bad coach. He is one of dozens who are experienced enough to stay employed. The entire work force has mediorce employees but they aren't bad. There just average or mediorce. That is the most I can say about him. In my view thats about all anyone can say about him.
 
I've read articles where Romo credits Parcells, Palmer, David Lee, and Garrett, but I can't recall Romo even mentioning Wilson.
 
ravidubey said:
I've read articles where Romo credits Parcells, Palmer, David Lee, and Garrett, but I can't recall Romo even mentioning Wilson.
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I don't credit Wilson either. That isn't the issue. It's not how good Wilson is rather is he a bad coach? It's prima faca that he is at least average by virtue of being able to stay in the league this long. The description or label he gets by posters on this site is that he is bad. I can only conclude that he is at least good enough to get by. That doesn't make him bad in my view rather he is someone that just fades into the background, hence he is an invisible coach to most but at least he is apparently acceptable by his peers.
 
L.T. Fan said:
Yes he has been in the league a long time and doesn't have a sterling resume. That's exactly my point. He is apparently good enough to stay employeed but not an over achiver. That says he is average at best and somewhat invisable but it doesn't say he is a bad coach. He is one of dozens who are experienced enough to stay employed. The entire work force has mediorce employees but they aren't bad. There just average or mediorce. That is the most I can say about him. In my view thats about all anyone can say about him.
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When you have 32 jobs in the NFL and hundreds of people in the college ranks that want that job, sticking with a coach that AT BEST can be considered mediocre is stupid. You should always be looking to improve your coaching staff the way you should always be looking to improve your roster.

I'd rather have a young offensive mind like Mike Tomlin was (on defense) when Tampa hired him in 2001 to be their d-backs coach, than the QB coach equivalent of Dave Campo. The NFL is the most elite place in football to work, you need to produce something or GTFO.
 
Clay_Allison said:
When you have 32 jobs in the NFL and hundreds of people in the college ranks that want that job, sticking with a coach that AT BEST can be considered mediocre is stupid. You should always be looking to improve your coaching staff the way you should always be looking to improve your roster.

I'd rather have a young offensive mind like Mike Tomlin was (on defense) when Tampa hired him in 2001 to be their d-backs coach, than the QB coach equivalent of Dave Campo. The NFL is the most elite place in football to work, you need to produce something or GTFO.
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May well be stupid but that is a debate about management. My issue is simply that I am not convinced Wilson is a bad coach. I only see evidence thst he is likely an average middle of the road coach.
 
L.T. Fan said:
May well be stupid but that is a debate about management. My issue is simply that I am not convinced Wilson is a bad coach. I only see evidence thst he is likely an average middle of the road coach.
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By your standard there is no such thing as evidence that someone is a bad coach because we can always "not know" whether it's his fault or the players' fault that he isn't getting results. By the same token we don't know if any coaches are good because they could be just benefiting from great talent.
 
Clay_Allison said:
By your standard there is no such thing as evidence that someone is a bad coach because we can always "not know" whether it's his fault or the players' fault that he isn't getting results. By the same token we don't know if any coaches are good because they could be just benefiting from great talent.
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By my standard I observe that Wilson has lasted this long in the league. He must be a reasonable coach otherwise if he were a bad coach he wouldn't have lasted this long. That's what I offer as my evidence. If he was detrimental to a team or their QBs it would get around and he couldn't get a job. He obviously does enough to stay in the system. That much is conclusive.
 
L.T. Fan said:
By my standard I observe that Wilson has lasted this long in the league. He must be a reasonable coach otherwise if he were a bad coach he wouldn't have lasted this long. That's what I offer as my evidence. If he was detrimental to a team or their QBs it would get around and he couldn't get a job. He obviously does enough to stay in the system. That much is conclusive.
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Same argument can used against him. 15 years in the league and never a sniff of a promotion.
 
Deuce said:
Same argument can used against him. 15 years in the league and never a sniff of a promotion.
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You are missing the point. I am not holding the guy up as being good. Never have from the start. You make my point by saying he has been in the league for 15 years. He is apparently acceptable but that's all I am saying about the guy. You seem to think I am endorsing him.
 
L.T. Fan said:
You are missing the point. I am not holding the guy up as being good. Never have from the start. You make my point by saying he has been in the league for 15 years. He is apparently acceptable but that's all I am saying about the guy. You seem to think I am endorsing him.
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It's possible he is still employed because he is at least acceptable/average but it is just as(most would say more) likely given his body of work that he is only still around due to nepotism/good ol boys network.
 
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