Archer: Would a runner make sense for the Cowboys at No. 4?

As a Buckeye fan I love Zeke but if Fournette continues to play the way he has they won't be in the same category.
 
Jiggyfly said:
But please bring up Dickerson again so I can have another great laugh.
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The Rams running game during the that era was a goal for the Cowboys to shoot for while they have this o-line, not a comparison between Elliott and the great Eric Dickerson.

As for Fournette/Elliott, here are their sophomore seasons:

Elliott: 15 273 1878 6.9 18 28 220 7.9 0
Fournette: 12 300 1953 6.5 22 19 253 13.3 1

How is that not comparable?

Elliott is more accomplished as a pass blocker. Fournette is more of a bruiser, and I believe his style will get him worn out faster, ala Larry Johnson.

mschmidt64 said:
I don't agree. I don't see Ezekiel Elliot as an Adrian Peterson-like stud.

I think he's a very good back but I think we would be buying low on Miller and I think he's a potential Pro Bowler behind this line as well.
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I'm not against Miller. I just believe Elliott is better in most ways. Also I have said many times taking Elliott at 4 is lazy. I also never said he's AP. Each draft is different, and in this one there are only a couple of truly special talents. Elliott is the all-time best from OSU, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

BTW, with the huge amount of cap space now available, someone is going to empty a Brinks truck on Miller's lawn this offseason. Murray's deal from last year could be the standard.
 
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ravidubey said:
The Rams running game during the that era was a goal for the Cowboys to shoot for while they have this o-line, not a comparison between Elliott and the great Eric Dickerson.

As for Fournette/Elliott, here are their sophomore seasons:

Elliott: 15 273 1878 6.9 18 28 220 7.9 0
Fournette: 12 300 1953 6.5 22 19 253 13.3 1

How is that not comparable?
.
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Because it's not the NFL and stats and especially stats from different conferences don't mean a whole lot. Melvin Gordon had like 3000 rushing yards in 2014, he was still the inferior back to Gurley.
 
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ravidubey said:
The Rams running game during the that era was a goal for the Cowboys to shoot for while they have this o-line, not a comparison between Elliott and the great Eric Dickerson.

As for Fournette/Elliott, here are their sophomore seasons:

Elliott: 15 273 1878 6.9 18 28 220 7.9 0
Fournette: 12 300 1953 6.5 22 19 253 13.3 1

How is that not comparable?

Elliott is more accomplished as a pass blocker. Fournette is more of a bruiser, and I believe his style will get him worn out faster, ala Larry Johnson.



I'm not against Miller. I just believe Elliott is better in most ways. Also I have said many times taking Elliott at 4 is lazy. I also never said he's AP. Each draft is different, and in this one there are only a couple of truly special talents. Elliott is the all-time best from OSU, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

BTW, with the huge amount of cap space now available, someone is going to empty a Brinks truck on Miller's lawn this offseason. Murray's deal from last year could be the standard.
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You could have just said the rams rushing attack because it was more than just Dickerson, Charles White had some nice years as well, which proves the point you don't need to invest a top 5 pick in a RB.

Dickerson's name should have never been used and even so those teams have how many superbowls?

Also Ohio State had a much more dynamic offense and LSU was totally dependent on Fournette.
 
Jiggyfly said:
You could have just said the rams rushing attack because it was more than just Dickerson, Charles White had some nice years as well, which proves the point you don't need to invest a top 5 pick in a RB.

Dickerson's name should have never been used and even so those teams have how many superbowls?
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Good Lord. Ok, I always said the "Rams with Dickerson", not Dickerson by himself. My intention was never to directly and randomly compare Ezekiel Elliott with Eric Dickerson, but with the model of the best OL and best possible RB for the Cowboys as a way forward, no matter what.

And those great OL's did for Charles White and Greg Bell what our line did for Darren McFadden last year. Big whoop, we wasted their talent.

A guy like Elliott is a quantum leap over McFadden. THAT should be our goal, pairing the best with the best.

Jiggyfly said:
Also Ohio State had a much more dynamic offense and LSU was totally dependent on Fournette.
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And LSU did jack shat with Fournette as a result. But Elliott was clearly the driving force behind OSU's push to the title. You could see it. He should have done it again, if his coach hadn't brain farted.

townsend said:
Because it's not the NFL and stats and especially stats from different conferences don't mean a whole lot. Melvin Gordon had like 3000 rushing yards in 2014, he was still the inferior back to Gurley.
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Without question, anyone could see that difference between Gurley and Gordon, especially as you looked at more plays.

But the stats I posted are comparisons between big time college programs and backs that are clearly difference-makers.

Elliott makes plays against tough competition. He's playing for a contender consistently against tough competition and led them to the National Championship. He came within an Urban Meyer lapse of judgement to leading them to another.

I'm not saying Elliott is better than Fournette, but he's definitely in the same league and absolutely not a fricking laugh icon (talk about over the top).
 
Looking at more plays I can unquestionably see the difference between Fournette and Elliott, I just can't see the difference between Gordon and Elliott.
Fournette has so much more power in his running. If he runs into a defender, the defender bounces back. If Elliott runs into a defender, Elliot bounces back. Ezekiel's quick and slippery, like Gordon, but he's no rumbler. He also doesn't seem to have that second gear that Fournette has. Elliott's initial burst is amazing, but that seems to be all he's got. I think he's gotten away with slipping out of a bunch of weak ass arm tackles. He doesn't seem to have the shear physicality that Fournette brings to an offense.

Watching what I can find, I do not see them as being in close to the same league.
 
townsend said:
Looking at more plays I can unquestionably see the difference between Fournette and Elliott, I just can't see the difference between Gordon and Elliott.
Fournette has so much more power in his running. If he runs into a defender, the defender bounces back. If Elliott runs into a defender, Elliot bounces back. Ezekiel's quick and slippery, like Gordon, but he's no rumbler. He also doesn't seem to have that second gear that Fournette has. Elliott's initial burst is amazing, but that seems to be all he's got. I think he's gotten away with slipping out of a bunch of weak ass arm tackles. He doesn't seem to have the shear physicality that Fournette brings to an offense.

Watching what I can find, I do not see them as being in close to the same league.
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I've come to agree Fournette is a better pure runner than Elliott but you and I have differing opinions about what "league" means. They are close, and definitely closer than you say.

BTW, where you see Elliott bounce backwards off defenders? He's often getting gang-tackled, and he has a lot to do with making those arm-tackles look weak.

And I don't understand the Gordon comparisons at all. Gordon is a thinner high-center of gravity guy with chicken legs and no power at the point of attack. If he slightly rubs against a defender his pace slows to a crawl. That's killing him as a pro-- he can never get going.

Elliott is stockier, 20 pounds heavier (not fat), and faster than Gordon. As you described, his initial burst is excellent. He's basically the Anti-Gordon.

In fact I compare Elliott's lower center of gravity favorably with Fournette's upright power, but that's a nit pick.
 
ravidubey said:
Elliott is stockier, 20 pounds heavier (not fat), and faster than Gordon. As you described, his initial burst is excellent. He's basically the Anti-Gordon.
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Gordon weighed in at 215 at the combine. Elliott was 225 at the combine. I'm pretty good at math and that comes out to a 10 pound difference...

Gordon doesn't have chicken legs either. Not sure where you got that at. But he was more elusive then Elliott if that's what you're getting at.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Gordon weighed in at 215 at the combine. Elliott was 225 at the combine. I'm pretty good at math and that comes out to a 10 pound difference...

Gordon doesn't have chicken legs either. Not sure where you got that at. But he was more elusive then Elliott if that's what you're getting at.
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Gordon must have shown up soaking wet. He did seem more elusive in college where he was listed as 207, and even there he was not the kind to break many tackles.

I think that extra weight roboted him in SD. It got him no extra power and damaged whatever gifts he may have had. Center of gravity, burst, and balance matter a lot for backs. I don't like it when they gain too much weight too quickly.
 
Josh Norris and Broaddus have said this week they have Jack and Elliot 1st and 2nd on their boards. So there's that.
 
Well if we are gonna do that by god at least trade down first and get an extra second and third/fourth.
 
VA Cowboy said:
Josh Norris and Broaddus have said this week they have Jack and Elliot 1st and 2nd on their boards. So there's that.
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What in Hell is this love affair with Jack? I don't get it. I guess because he was 245 at the combine up from his college playing weight of 230. But in general I could give a damn about his being an "athlete" or that he also played RB.

The best thing about him is his attitude, but a lot of the rest is a sideshow.

Whatever the love is, NFL.com agrees.

They graded Jack a 7.5, Buckner and Elliot 7.2, and Tunsil a 7.7. Ramsey was a 6.8, and hopefully we don't care because we already drafted our FS last year. Henry is a 6.15, and Gordon was 6.25, BTW.
 
VA Cowboy said:
Josh Norris and Broaddus have said this week they have Jack and Elliot 1st and 2nd on their boards. So there's that.
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Who gives a shit who Norris and Broaddus think is the top player. If you have Elliott as the best player in the draft I wouldn't pay attention to anything else you say because you're clueless.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Who gives a shit who Norris and Broaddus think is the top player. If you have Elliott as the best player in the draft I wouldn't pay attention to anything else you say because you're clueless.
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I thought the implication was that this was the Cowboys' rankings.
 
mschmidt64 said:
Well if we are gonna do that by god at least trade down first and get an extra second and third/fourth.
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How are you going to trade down in the first?

Both the Giants and Eagles would jump on Elliott.
 
boozeman said:
Both the Giants and Eagles would jump on Elliott.
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I seriously doubt the Eagles will. But if they do who cares. A rival just reached for a RB. I'd be clapping my hands in excitement. Probably wouldn't even go for 800 yards with that shitty offensive line.
 
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