Ali dead

It was absolutely a huge point of contention at the time, it's not even debatable. Less so now, but there are certainly some people who still have not gotten over it.
 
Iamtdg said:
Correct. Thousands went, and he did not. Slight difference.



It put him out of boxing for 3 years. I'd say that was a black cloud at the time.



Uhh, yeah. Because we aren't in a massive war. Pretty simple.
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You know I meant did not go.

I think you just have a problem with what facts are, I mean all of the protest during this time were for the war right?
 
Genghis Khan said:
It was absolutely a huge point of contention at the time, it's not even debatable. Less so now, but there are certainly some people who still have not gotten over it.
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Yes it was a point of contention but this guy was injecting his opinion not stating facts.

Not everyone then or now thinks it was a black cloud on his character.
 
Jiggyfly said:
You know I meant did not go.

I think you just have a problem with what facts are, I mean all of the protest during this time were for the war right?
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FACT: Ali dodged the draft

FACT: He had to sit out of boxing for 3 years

FACT: Huge black cloud over him at the time and even now for some

Yeah, I'm the one that has a problem with the definition of facts.
 
Jiggyfly said:
You know I meant did not go.

I think you just have a problem with what facts are, I mean all of the protest during this time were for the war right?
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And again WGAS about the protests. Has nothing to with him dodging the draft.
 
Jiggyfly said:
Yes it was a point of contention but this guy was injecting his opinion not stating facts.

Not everyone then or now thinks it was a black cloud on his character.
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Of course not everyone felt that way. Because, as you said, there were some opposed to the war and thought he was a saint for dodging. And, at the same time, there were millions of people that thought he should do his civic duty. Hence the black cloud comment.

Like I said at the start of this, inappropriately timed, yeah. Offensive, nah.
 
Iamtdg said:
Of course not everyone felt that way. Because, as you said, there were some opposed to the war and thought he was a saint for dodging. And, at the same time, there were millions of people that thought he should do his civic duty. Hence the black cloud comment.

Like I said at the start of this, inappropriately timed, yeah. Offensive, nah.
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This guy said it was a black cloud on his character, that is his opinion not a fact.

Still having issues with the definition of facts.
 
FACT: Ali dodged the draft

FACT: He had to sit out of boxing for 3 years

FACT: Huge black cloud over him at the time and even now for some

Yeah, I'm the one that has a problem with the definition of facts.
 
I'll just keep copying and pasting it until it sinks in.
 
Jiggyfly said:
There were thousands of people who did go when drafted, Islam had nothing to with it.

There is nothing factual about him not going to war being a black cloud, there are millions of people who agreed with him then and even more now.

There is a reason the draft does not exist anymore.
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The reason no draft exists is because it is not needed. I was required to sign up for the selective service or whatever it was called when I turned 18. They could reinstate it in a heartbeat.
 
Iamtdg said:
I'll just keep copying and pasting it until it sinks in.
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I get what you are saying but it's kinda semantics. What's the difference between stating an opinion versus stating that some people have that opinion? Stating that some people have that opinion is a fact, but doesn't make the opinion a fact.
 
mschmidt64 said:
I get what you are saying but it's kinda semantics. What's the difference between stating an opinion versus stating that some people have that opinion? Stating that some people have that opinion is a fact, but doesn't make the opinion a fact.
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It's only semantics for one of those 3 points. The other two are absolute facts.
 
I'm surprised that for someone who wants his government as "small" and "non intrusive"(for lack of a BETTER WORD) as possible, you consider it such a black cloud that someone stood up to it and refused to take part in a war they did not believe in.
 
Angrymesscan said:
I'm surprised that for someone who wants his government as "small" and "non intrusive"(for lack of a BETTER WORD) as possible, you consider it such a black cloud that someone stood up to it and refused to take part in a war they did not believe in.
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There is a difference between wanting less regulations and flatout breaking the laws that are in place.
 
Iamtdg said:
There is a difference between wanting less regulations and flatout breaking the laws that are in place.
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I've never really lived through a draft so it is hard for me to imagine what I would do. There are certain wars where you just know it's the right thing to do to go overseas and fight. WWII for example was a war that I think if I was over fighting age during I would have gone and done so before even being drafted. But in my lifetime I have seen the United States get caught up in some wars that they had no business being a part of. If the United States instituted a draft for one of those wars it would be a real bitter pill for me to swallow to go.

I know that it's a little off point. It's just that a military draft is sort of surreal for younger generations who have never been a part of one.
 
I always kind of assumed that vilification of draft dodgers was a good way to undermine anti war efforts.

Everyone who doesn't want to die in a jungle for literally no reason is a coward.

And it's them that soldiers should hate, not NIxon, LBJ, or Robert McNamara.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I've never really lived through a draft so it is hard for me to imagine what I would do. There are certain wars where you just know it's the right thing to do to go overseas and fight. WWII for example was a war that I think if I was over fighting age during I would have gone and done so before even being drafted. But in my lifetime I have seen the United States get caught up in some wars that they had no business being a part of. If the United States instituted a draft for one of those wars it would be a real bitter pill for me to swallow to go.

I know that it's a little off point. It's just that a military draft is sort of surreal for younger generations who have never been a part of one.
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All the males in my family served in the military including my dad. Two were drafted , two volunteered. Two served in wars and two served during the cold war.
 
mschmidt64 said:
The reason no draft exists is because it is not needed. I was required to sign up for the selective service or whatever it was called when I turned 18. They could reinstate it in a heartbeat.
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That's all true but public pressure after the Vietnam War had a lot to do with it.
 
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