Abortion... yeah or nah?

Cowboysrock55 said:
I'm all for making sure children are taken care of. Babies put up for adoption aren't really the problem though. The problem is the 6 year old who was born with a mom doing crack who gets thrown into the foster system and has serious issues as a result.
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That's because the number of babies is relatively low. How many abortions are performed in TX a month? How many kids are adopted? And each baby adopted is one less 6 year old that gets adopted.
 
Angrymesscan said:
Doesn't mental health count? And you talk like pregnancy is easy, like just carrying a backpack for a couple of months. My wife and I wanted our children very much, and still you can't say the pregnancy was a blast, the women's bodies get put through the ringer in most pregnancies. What about it affecting a whole household, imagine it's your wife who got raped, how would you feel about seeing that reminder of what probably would be one of the worst memories of your live every day? Imagine you have a child old enough to understand what happened? How are you going to expect a 12 year old to treat that child that came to be from something that caused their mom to cry and be miserable for days on end?
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So rape victims routinely get anti viral medications to prevent venereal disease after a rape. Do they also not have the option of a morning after pill, I'm pretty sure you do. It's why abortions from rape outside of 6 weeks are stupid rare.

And hell no pregnancy isn't easy. I'm terrified of my wife ever getting pregnant again. (Yeah I know I can clip my boys and probably should). She got bad morning sickness with our two babies. Her mood swings were awful. Our baby is 5 months old right now and she still hates her body. So no, I'm well aware of how brutal pregnancy can be. And on top of that she had to have a C section with a scar because my boy kept flipping around and when he finally did go head down his cord was above his head.

I'll take that over my daughter who had a congenital heart defect and we spent a month in the hospital praying every day that she would make it through it all. When a doctor tells you she has a great chance of survival at 90% its really hard not to think 10% is soul crushingly high.

So yeah, pregnancy and birth are no joke. If you don't want kids figure your shit out.
 
Angrymesscan said:
That's because the number of babies is relatively low. How many abortions are performed in TX a month? How many kids are adopted? And each baby adopted is one less 6 year old that gets adopted.
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Sure it's like puppies. You go to a shelter and the little puppies get snatched up right away. The 8 year old dog dies in the shelter. I'm not convinced someone wanting a puppy would pick out the 8 year old dog instead though.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
So rape victims routinely get anti viral medications to prevent venereal disease after a rape. Do they also not have the option of a morning after pill, I'm pretty sure you do. It's why abortions from rape outside of 6 weeks are stupid rare.

And hell no pregnancy isn't easy. I'm terrified of my wife ever getting pregnant again. (Yeah I know I can clip my boys and probably should). She got bad morning sickness with our two babies. Her mood swings were awful. Our baby is 5 months old right now and she still hates her body. So no, I'm well aware of how brutal pregnancy can be. And on top of that she had to have a C section with a scar because my boy kept flipping around and when he finally did go head down his cord was above his head.

I'll take that over my daughter who had a congenital heart defect and we spent a month in the hospital praying every day that she would make it through it all. When a doctor tells you she has a great chance of survival at 90% its really hard not to think 10% is soul crushingly high.

So yeah, pregnancy and birth are no joke. If you don't want kids figure your shit out.
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Of course you'd rather have all the hassle of a difficult pregnancy than your baby having health problems no matter how small,but that is about YOUR baby, that you wanted to conceive, not the result of one of your worst nightmares. Unless you're raising a kid that comes from your wife having been raped, you're situation has absolutely no point of comparison.
Some here think it's appalling that the government or employer demand that people get vaccinated, how dare they make put something into my body that I don't want, But cheer that they force you to keep something that was put in your body forcibly and against your will, I really don't get that. I mean try to really put yourself in those shoes. How can you deny a person who has been through such a traumatic experience (and I can think of few more traumatic) any options, or tell them you've got 6 weeks to get over this and make a life altering decision.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Sure it's like puppies. You go to a shelter and the little puppies get snatched up right away. The 8 year old dog dies in the shelter. I'm not convinced someone wanting a puppy would pick out the 8 year old dog instead though.
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Someone wanting a dog to love and care for would, if there are no more puppies. And the moment there are more puppies than people wanting to adopt those puppies would grow to 8 year old dogs in the shelter..
 
Angrymesscan said:
Some here think it's appalling that the government or employer demand that people get vaccinated, how dare they make put something into my body that I don't want, But cheer that they force you to keep something that was put in your body forcibly and against your will, I really don't get that. I mean try to really put yourself in those shoes. How can you deny a person who has been through such a traumatic experience (and I can think of few more traumatic) any options, or tell them you've got 6 weeks to get over this and make a life altering decision.
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Get over it? No I'm saying take a pill before there is a decision to even make. Sort of like you take a fucking pill to hopefully not get AIDS from the rape. I wish you could wait 6 months to make that decision too. But you don't.

And bringing up the vaccine is plain dumb. In one situation we are talking about two peoples bodies and ending the life of one of those bodies. A person has the right to make choices for their own body. But it's complicated when the life you're taking is not the body you're talking about.

Out of curiosity where would you draw the line? 3 months? 6 months? Up until birth? Minutes after birth? I mean you can't subject your poor family to a child who was a product of rape?
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Get over it? No I'm saying take a pill before there is a decision to even make. Sort of like you take a fucking pill to hopefully not get AIDS from the rape. I wish you could wait 6 months to make that decision too. But you don't.

And bringing up the vaccine is plain dumb. In one situation we are talking about two peoples bodies and ending the life of one of those bodies. A person has the right to make choices for their own body. But it's complicated when the life you're taking is not the body you're talking about.

Out of curiosity where would you draw the line? 3 months? 6 months? Up until birth? Minutes after birth? I mean you can't subject your poor family to a child who was a product of rape?
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I don't have the editing skills to respond between paragraphs,so just consider each of mine an answer to the corresponding of yours.

So you're ok with abortion, just make it fast? How long should you have? Why 6 weeks?

Hey I'm for letting each person decide for themselves in both cases.

Viability, when it's two bodies that can live independently of each other. Where would you?

I probably could, but that would have to be our decision, we shouldn't be forced to.
 
The same people who want to force or mandate a vaccine are the same people asking others to let them decide what they do with their own body.

Pretty rich.
 
You say their body, I say their baby. You talk like there isn't a body that you're literally tearing to pieces to abort. You ignore the actually baby who is being killed and only consider the mother carrying the baby. This isn't a your body your choice issue. That's the difference. I'm ok with 6 weeks but I'm open to other suggestions. I'm certainly against late term abortions where a viable baby is killed. So no, 24 weeks isn't ok with me. Because yes a baby can survive at that age.

My understanding is 6 weeks is chosen because that's when the heart beat can be detected. Maybe that's a silly distinction. I'm not sure where I would personally draw the line. I'm not really ok with 12 weeks. By then you've got arms, legs, toes and a beating heart. But I'm open to other opinions on the matter.
 
Sheik said:
The same people who want to force or mandate a vaccine are the same people asking others to let them decide what they do with their own body.

Pretty rich.
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I found it just as odd with abortion rights and the death penalty, another one that I can't understand is Christians/sanctity of life and I'll shoot you if you try to steal from me.
 
Angrymesscan said:
I found it just as odd with abortion rights and the death penalty, another one that I can't understand is Christians/sanctity of life and I'll shoot you if you try to steal from me.
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Abortion = innocent who has done nothing wrong to deserve the death penalty.

Death Penalty = used to kill someone who committed horrendous crimes and no longer deserves to live.

Big differences. Personally I don't like the death penalty because there are people convicted who are innocent. I can't stand the thought of an innocent person being killed because of a system that isn't perfect. But I don't find the issues to be related in my mind.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Abortion = innocent who has done nothing wrong to deserve the death penalty.

Death Penalty = used to kill someone who committed horrendous crimes and no longer deserves to live.

Big differences. Personally I don't like the death penalty because there are people convicted who are innocent. I can't stand the thought of an innocent person being killed because of a system that isn't perfect. But I don't find the issues to be related in my mind.
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100% this.
 
Angrymesscan said:
I found it just as odd with abortion rights and the death penalty, another one that I can't understand is Christians/sanctity of life and I'll shoot you if you try to steal from me.
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So, a person should just let someone steal from them?
 
Angrymesscan said:
Shouldn't the penalty fit the crime? How much is a life worth? Less than a TV?
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I don't believe that is for me to determine. I believe that sits at the feet of people stealing shit. "How much is your life worth? Is it worth a TV?"
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Abortion = innocent who has done nothing wrong to deserve the death penalty.

Death Penalty = used to kill someone who committed horrendous crimes and no longer deserves to live.

Big differences. Personally I don't like the death penalty because there are people convicted who are innocent. I can't stand the thought of an innocent person being killed because of a system that isn't perfect. But I don't find the issues to be related in my mind.
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You seem to think that I'm a D and as such stand for abortion and against the death penalty.
I remind you I'm not from the USA, much less from any political party.
I've never been to fond of human kind, I do believe we act like a virus.
As such my way of thinking as a youngster was pretty much "shoot them all let God sort them out". Now and especially since I've got kids, I'm more towards giving each the right to choose, I personally wouldn't go the way of the abortion except in extreme cases, but think that should be each persons decision to live with. Regarding the death penalty I'd also be ok with the invested party choosing, but making sure his choice isn't a burden to society. You want to do live, either because you're scared of death or you are innocent and hope that will come to light, fine but have them working to pay for their room and board. Death fine, but non of this months or years in expensive death row, you get swiftly (and in a cost= effective way) executed the next day.
 
Iamtdg said:
I don't believe that is for me to determine. I believe that sits at the feet of people stealing shit. "How much is your life worth? Is it worth a TV?"
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But that is what you're doing if you shoot them, you're being judge, jury and executioner.
 
Angrymesscan said:
But that is what you're doing if you shoot them, you're being judge, jury and executioner.
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Nah, they decided their fate when they decided to try to steal my shit. That was their decision.
 
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