A week of LGBTQ acceptance education in a middle school. Really?

[Cotton]

I'd just like to say that I don't really worry about trannies at all. I don't particularly think that they are much of a threat. It is the idea of opening up restrooms to both genders. It is just a bad idea for a number of very logical reasons. Basically human decency is becoming a rare commodity these days.

But since we are talking about percentages I don't understand how you can use numbers to help make a very small number of these folks happy by making bunch of ridiculous laws. If you are going to say that the numbers are the driving force justifying doing it why aren't they to not? Haha someone help me out here with what I'm trying to say.

The world has been spinning mostly fine to this point. Stop changing shit to appease a tiny minority of people.

This is how I feel. I'm not worried about trans people. I'm worried about opening up bathrooms all willy nilly.

 

[Cotton]

I'm not single, jackass, my wife and I just don't want kids. If I did have kids I'd hope I'd be worried about real things like how much debt they'll have to go into to go to college, or what the job market will look like when they graduate, or why we're letting real actual rapists out of prison so we can lock people up for pot, but then again the stress might make it so I can only pay attention to flavor of the moment outrage about whatever the hell the next "think of the children" nonsense will be about. It's no wonder politicians in both parties get away with the shit they do when they can keep the voters distracted with shit like an imaginary "Tranny Crime Wave".

Your decision not to have children is a wise one.

 

[Kbrown]

I think the biggest issue is that Trans people have encountered a level of discrimination that is almost unparalleled. This manifests in a lot of harassment and assault. There's still a pervasive narrative that trans people are perverts. There's still an association with perversion that worries people about Trans women (not as much trans men if we're being honest), and it's at the core of a lot of the protests. It didn't affect a whole lot of people when they fought for gay men not be allowed to be scout masters. There are a lot less gay scout masters than trans folks who use restrooms. The fight is against a misrepresentation, and an irrational paranoia that results in real violence against people.

750k might not be a lot of people but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be treated with respect.

Damn, unparallelled discrimination? Sounds like we need a Constitutional amendment for such a grave human rights crisis.

 

[Kbrown]

I mean, discrimination without parallel. Jiggy, 1big, care to weigh in?

 

[Kbrown]

Transgender people in America are experiencing discrimination the likes of which we haven't seen.

Emmett Till, James Byrd, do you have any thoughts on this key issue?

 

[Kbrown]

Please pause the Tuskegee Experiments. It's important that we ask each test subject about systemic discrimination against transgenders, the likes of which we have never seen before.

 

[Kbrown]

Any Lakota Indians on this board? Paging Lakota Indians....

 

[Kbrown]

You realize that most states still have it on the books that it's okay to assault or kill a trans person if they make a sexual advance towards you, to this day Trans people get murdered for being trans, I haven't looked at Alabama's laws lately but I believe kill other minorities is illegal at this point. I'm not minimizing the suffering of other minorities. But LGBTs, unlike cultural/ethnic/religious minorities frequently get discriminated against by their own families.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

Here's a good study that indicates the kind of discrimination Trans people tend to face.

Great. Change these laws. The discussion we were having was about bathroom comfort. I will say it is strange that bathroom comfort is at the top of the agenda.

You are a smart man, but smart people often say stupid things when they get tangled in their own pretentiousness. I know from personal experience. Just claim hyperbole on "almost unparalleled discrimination" and move past it.

 

[L.T. Fan]

You realize that most states still have it on the books that it's okay to assault or kill a trans person if they make a sexual advance towards you, to this day Trans people get murdered for being trans, I haven't looked at Alabama's laws lately but I believe kill other minorities is illegal at this point. I'm not minimizing the suffering of other minorities. But LGBTs, unlike cultural/ethnic/religious minorities frequently get discriminated against by their own families.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

Here's a good study that indicates the kind of discrimination Trans people tend to face.

Because of your strong outspoken positions on this subject matter I guess we should ask the question are you trans gender? Is this the reason you think some of us are being insensitive? Obviously I am not really asking for an answer. It just seems to me that you are unusually immersed in this topic.

 

[townsend]

Because of your strong outspoken positions on this subject matter I guess we should ask the question are you trans gender? Is this the reason you think some of us are being insensitive? Obviously I am not really asking for an answer. It just seems to me that you are unusually immersed in this topic.

I'm not, in fact I've been on the other side of this argument for most of my life. But I've had the good fortune of knowing a few trans people and they don't deserve to be treated poorly.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I'm not, in fact I've been on the other side of this argument for most of my life. But I've had the good fortune of knowing a few trans people and they don't deserve to be treated poorly.

Nor does anyone on this site. The entire population here I think is in a live and let live posture about humanity in general. The only rub in this issue is public rest room use. Taking a position of not mixing genders in this circumstance isn't mistreating. It's also a live and let live request from those of us who do not want to see it happen. Status quo isn't abusing anyone.

 

[Smitty]

Transgender people in America are experiencing discrimination the likes of which we haven't seen.

Emmett Till, James Byrd, do you have any thoughts on this key issue?

This kind of hyperbole is what you get when you have a know it all who has met some transgender people who recently got excited about a subject. Message board crusades!

 

[Smitty]

Great. Change these laws. The discussion we were having was about bathroom comfort. I will say it is strange that bathroom comfort is at the top of the agenda.

You are a smart man, but smart people often say stupid things when they get tangled in their own pretentiousness. I know from personal experience. Just claim hyperbole on "almost unparalleled discrimination" and move past it.

I know I'm running the risk of hearing how Townsend knows lawyers now, but that is a crock of shit. Maybe some states have outdated unenforced laws, but as a lawyer, I can tell you that there is no laws in effect in any jurisdiction that I have heard of that allow you to kill a transgender person for flirting with you.

Maybe if we mean sexual assault, but you are always allowed to defend yourself from anyone making those kinds of "advances."

 

[skidadl]

Great. Change these laws. The discussion we were having was about bathroom comfort. I will say it is strange that bathroom comfort is at the top of the agenda.

You are a smart man, but smart people often say stupid things when they get tangled in their own pretentiousness. I know from personal experience. Just claim hyperbole on "almost unparalleled discrimination" and move past it.

This is a really good post. Those of us that are passionate about issues understand this all too well. If you've been around long enough you need to play the hyperbole card and just calm down.

 

[Kbrown]

I know I'm running the risk of hearing how Townsend knows lawyers now, but that is a crock of shit. Maybe some states have outdated unenforced laws, but as a lawyer, I can tell you that there is no laws in effect in any jurisdiction that I have heard of that allow you to kill a transgender person for flirting with you.

Maybe if we mean sexual assault, but you are always allowed to defend yourself from anyone making those kinds of "advances."

I kind of figured they were mostly along the lines of those "no bringing your horse into a church on Wednesday" laws, but I wasn't going to be bothered to research it.

 

[townsend]

Great. Change these laws. The discussion we were having was about bathroom comfort. I will say it is strange that bathroom comfort is at the top of the agenda.

You are a smart man, but smart people often say stupid things when they get tangled in their own pretentiousness. I know from personal experience. Just claim hyperbole on "almost unparalleled discrimination" and move past it.

It's not about comfort. It's about discrimination for the sake of discrimination. It's about people just now deciding their should be potty police, it's about sewing the seed that someone who appears trans might be a rapist. It's about people rolling out hysterics for the sake of harassing and marginalizing a group of people.

Listen I don't know what to tell you. Obviously there are big differences in the way cultural/ethnic/religious minorities encounter discrimination. Trans people don't have ancestral lands that can be stolen from them, also very rarely can people of other races pose as whites, etc. When I say unparalleled I wasn't minimizing the holocaust or wounded knee, to me that goes further than discrimination. But it's a fair point for you to say that Trans people haven't encountered that kind of large scale extermination (at least to my knowledge)

The point that I was making is they suffer a unique combination discriminations that I don't think any other minority experiences. Racial minorities don't get kicked out of their family for being racial minorities. Racial/Ethnic/Religious minorities have a community of support, trans people get put in much more isolated scenarios where they're rife for exploitation, abuse, and poverty. Again I'm not trying to minimize other kinds of discrimination just pointing out the unique challenges that only trans people face.

 

[townsend]

I know I'm running the risk of hearing how Townsend knows lawyers now, but that is a crock of shit. Maybe some states have outdated unenforced laws, but as a lawyer, I can tell you that there is no laws in effect in any jurisdiction that I have heard of that allow you to kill a transgender person for flirting with you.

Maybe if we mean sexual assault, but you are always allowed to defend yourself from anyone making those kinds of "advances."

http://lgbtbar.org/what-we-do/programs/gay-and-trans-panic-defense/

http://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2377&context=faculty_publications
Here is some information on the "Trans panic" defense, of you're interested.

Your lazy, and think it's easier to SBK your way through arguments than to actually put in any effort

 

[skidadl]

It's not about comfort. It's about discrimination for the sake of discrimination. It's about people just now deciding their should be potty police, it's about sewing the seed that someone who appears trans might be a rapist. It's about people rolling out hysterics for the sake of harassing and marginalizing a group of people.

Listen I don't know what to tell you. Obviously there are big differences in the way cultural/ethnic/religious minorities encounter discrimination. Trans people don't have ancestral lands that can be stolen from them, also very rarely can people of other races pose as whites, etc. When I say unparalleled I wasn't minimizing the holocaust or wounded knee, to me that goes further than discrimination. But it's a fair point for you to say that Trans people haven't encountered that kind of large scale extermination (at least to my knowledge)

The point that I was making is they suffer a unique combination discriminations that I don't think any other minority experiences. Racial minorities don't get kicked out of their family for being racial minorities. Racial/Ethnic/Religious minorities have a community of support, trans people get put in much more isolated scenarios where they're rife for exploitation, abuse, and poverty. Again I'm not trying to minimize other kinds of discrimination just pointing out the unique challenges that only trans people face.

Do you think that trans people are being marinalized? because of the bathroom issue? Because that is what this is about. The rest of us might feel marginalized over the shared bathroom issue. Who should win out?

Nobody here wants people to suffer but occasionally you need common sense to win out. I just think that emotion is driving this rather than reason. Why should we make everyone in America abide by this silly idea?

Let's just say that trans people are suffering in a while array of situations. Why do we need to overreact and hyper focus on one that is really not that important? How bout we just help these people where they are suffering which is psychologically. This bathroom issues not going to relieve anything for them but it is going to cause a lot of problems with millions of other people.

 

[skidadl]

bathroom just the beginning of this. All-girls dorms, schools and sororities are next.

Exactly. There is a hardcore move to remove genders completely from society. That is very damaging to everyone.

 

[Kbrown]

It's not about comfort. It's about discrimination for the sake of discrimination. It's about people just now deciding their should be potty police, it's about sewing the seed that someone who appears trans might be a rapist. It's about people rolling out hysterics for the sake of harassing and marginalizing a group of people.

Listen I don't know what to tell you. Obviously there are big differences in the way cultural/ethnic/religious minorities encounter discrimination. Trans people don't have ancestral lands that can be stolen from them, also very rarely can people of other races pose as whites, etc. When I say unparalleled I wasn't minimizing the holocaust or wounded knee, to me that goes further than discrimination. But it's a fair point for you to say that Trans people haven't encountered that kind of large scale extermination (at least to my knowledge)

The point that I was making is they suffer a unique combination discriminations that I don't think any other minority experiences. Racial minorities don't get kicked out of their family for being racial minorities. Racial/Ethnic/Religious minorities have a community of support, trans people get put in much more isolated scenarios where they're rife for exploitation, abuse, and poverty. Again I'm not trying to minimize other kinds of discrimination just pointing out the unique challenges that only trans people face.

Look it, these reactionary laws were a response to other places making it a point to publicly affirm the right for trannies to pee in peace. Both sets of laws are symbolic and asinine in my eyes.

I think the reason you are seeing push-back is the sense that there must be new laws attached to every new group with a tough back story. It seems that each successive civil rights fight is over more and more obscure stuff. By 2066, if climate change hasn't killed us, we will be in a fight over paying reparations to gingers for all the jokes they've had made at their expense. And people who think maybe ginger reparations aren't worth it will be doxxed on social media and compared to the great bigots of the past.

It is possible to set up a support system for people without creating new, stupid laws.

People get kicked out of their families for dating black men, converting to Lutheranism, etc. No new laws required.