9 dead in ‘hate crime’ shooting at historic African American church in Charleston

pdom said:
Shit ton of things. I should clarify that I use the word 'censor' loosely as the umbrella term for all types of hints frowned upon now because it might offend some group of people - color, sex, sexual orientation, handicapped, etc.

pledge of allegiance for the phrase "under God", huckleberry Finn for the use of the n word, govt land can't have Christian crosses, gay marriage, affirmative action, essentially can't fire pregnant women or old people close to retirement, etc.
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Dude, you encapsulated discrimination. About 75% of it has nothing to do with skin color.
 
Iamtdg said:
All we are doing is furthering our divide by making everything about petty shit like a flag.
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I totally agree about this part. It's why I think it's just dumbfounding that people are using a tragedy like this to try and eliminate a stupid flag from government buildings. Why is that anyone's focus at a time like this?
 
I should mention that I'm not for making the confederate flag illegal. Free speech is free speech.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I totally agree about this part. It's why I think it's just dumbfounding that people are using a tragedy like this to try and eliminate a stupid flag from government buildings. Why is that anyone's focus at a time like this?
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Because it's something that can be accomplished. It's a way to heal the racial divide. In South Carolina that flag was a symbol of division between blacks and whites. In the wake of an appalling hate crime meant to divide races further, the state taking steps to negate that is the best thing that can come of this tragedy.
 
townsend said:
I think that personal experience might play a part in it. Even in TX I haven't met anyone who would demonstrate the stars and bars who also didn't like to aspouse the merits of Jim Crow.
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Wow, maybe. I do not know anyone like that.
 
townsend said:
Because it's something that can be accomplished. It's a way to heal the racial divide. In South Carolina that flag was a symbol of division between blacks and whites. In the wake of an appalling hate crime meant to divide races further, the state taking steps to negate that is the best thing that can come of this tragedy.
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If you think that's going to do anything to heal the racism then I think you're way off the mark. The flag had absolutely nothing to do in causing this tragedy and taking it down will have nothing to do in fixing the tragedy. It's a red herring. Hell taking down the flag is just as likely to cause problems among racist nuts like this then anything. If people want to make something positive happen out of a tragedy like this, taking down a flag should be the last thing on that list.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
If you think that's going to do anything to heal the racism then I think you're way off the mark. The flag had absolutely nothing to do in causing this tragedy and taking it down will have nothing to do in fixing the tragedy. It's a red herring. Hell taking down the flag is just as likely to cause problems among racist nuts like this then anything. If people want to make something positive happen out of a tragedy like this, taking down a flag should be the last thing on that list.
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I agree that the flag didn't cause this. Crazy racist dip shit caused this. Great religious blacks suffered from it. How is it illogical to do something in the wake of this tragedy that would be something the long suffering good people would want, and something the murderous bigot would hate?
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
If you think that's going to do anything to heal the racism then I think you're way off the mark. The flag had absolutely nothing to do in causing this tragedy and taking it down will have nothing to do in fixing the tragedy. It's a red herring. Hell taking down the flag is just as likely to cause problems among racist nuts like this then anything. If people want to make something positive happen out of a tragedy like this, taking down a flag should be the last thing on that list.
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I agree.
 
mschmidt64 said:
Man, I just do not agree. You see all kinds of people driving around the south with it plastered on their cars or on their T-shirts.

I find it hard to believe they are all white supremacists, or even most of them. They're mostly just harmless hillbillies who are espousing their own form of under-educated separatism, but at it's root, I don't think they are much in the way of racists at all.

To me that is part of what makes America great, that it has local flavors like that which aren't all PC. Kinda like New Yorkers being assholes.
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I don't think everyone who flys the flag is racist either. I'm just saying that there's such a negative connotation with that flag that when most people see it they automatically see it as a sign divisiveness.

Just like when you see a black kid with dreads, sagging pants and wearing a hoodie I'm sure most of us automatically assume gang banger, thug, hoodlum, etc. But it could be that that person just likes dressing like that and has never broken a single law in his life.
 
1bigfan13 said:
I don't think everyone who flys the flag is racist either. I'm just saying that there's such a negative connotation with that flag that when most people see it they automatically see it as a sign divisiveness.

Just like when you see a black kid with dreads, sagging pants and wearing a hoodie I'm sure most of us automatically assume gang banger, thug, hoodlum, etc. But it could be that that person just likes dressing like that and has never broken a single law in his life.
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Exactly. So what do you do? Forbid the kid from his preference of clothing? It's also possible that the Conferate flag will have the same connotation to some but do you eradicate it? That's really the basis of the discussion at hand. I can only express my thoughts about how the Confederate flag strikes me. In my viewit's part of the nation's history even though it brings with it some issues that are offensive. I have also visited the Holocost museum in DC and that part of World history is offensive to me but should I start a, movement to remove it? I am offended by the some of the ideals of the Confederacy but it's still part of history.
 
L.T. Fan said:
Exactly. So what do you do? Forbid the kid from his preference of clothing? It's also possible that the Conferate flag will have the same connotation to some but do you eradicate it? That's really the basis of the discussion at hand. I can only express my thoughts about how the Confederate flag strikes me. In my viewit's part of the nation's history even though it brings with it some issues that are offensive. I have also visited the Holocost museum in DC and that part of World history is offensive to me but should I start a, movement to remove it? I am offended by the some of the ideals of the Confederacy but it's still part of history.
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I’m not arguing to eradicate it. I never have. I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

The only thing I argue against is having the flag flying on your state grounds or imprinted into your state flag like Mississippi does.

I think that’s totally different than arguing for an individual’s right to wear a certain type of clothing.

Now I know some might argue that a state should have the right to fly whatever flag they see fit….and you know what, I actually agree with that. But I’ll also say this……going back to my initial point in this post…..freedom of speech and freedom of expression does not mean there are no consequences to your actions.

One of the more notable examples of this in the sports world was back in the early 90s when Arizona refused to acknowledge MLK Day. Well the NFL stepped in and stripped them of the Super Bowl which cost the state millions of dollars and thousands jobs.

I saw yesterday that a similar ban was placed on the state of SC by the NCAA where for many years they refused to hold national NCAA events in the state because of the flag.

I think that’s what happened yesterday with Gov Haley. I think she weighed consequences vs. continuing to fight. No matter how valid her points may have been she’d have looked bad defending the flying of the confederate flag with that mass shooting not even being a week old and the killer clearly embracing the confederate flag as a symbol a white power. It was a no win situation, IMO.
 
1bigfan13 said:
I’m not arguing to eradicate it. I never have. I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

The only thing I argue against is having the flag flying on your state grounds or imprinted into your state flag like Mississippi does.

I think that’s totally different than arguing for an individual’s right to wear a certain type of clothing.

Now I know some might argue that a state should have the right to fly whatever flag they see fit….and you know what, I actually agree with that. But I’ll also say this……going back to my initial point in this post…..freedom of speech and freedom of expression does not mean there are no consequences to your actions.

One of the more notable examples of this in the sports world was back in the early 90s when Arizona refused to acknowledge MLK Day. Well the NFL stepped in and stripped them of the Super Bowl which cost the state millions of dollars and thousands jobs.

I saw yesterday that a similar ban was placed on the state of SC by the NCAA where for many years they refused to hold national NCAA events in the state because of the flag.

I think that’s what happened yesterday with Gov Haley. I think she weighed consequences vs. continuing to fight. No matter how valid her points may have been she’d have looked bad defending the flying of the confederate flag with that mass shooting not even being a week old and the killer clearly embracing the confederate flag as a symbol a white power. It was a no win situation, IMO.
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Can't argue with that . My thoughts go more to the eradication mentality. That flag good or bad is part of American history and I accept it as such. When and where it is displayed is too nebulous for me to take a generalized stated position.
 
1bigfan13 said:
I think that’s what happened yesterday with Gov Haley. I think she weighed consequences vs. continuing to fight. No matter how valid her points may have been she’d have looked bad defending the flying of the confederate flag with that mass shooting not even being a week old and the killer clearly embracing the confederate flag as a symbol a white power. It was a no win situation, IMO.
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Was he wearing crocs in any of his pictures? I'd really like that shit to be taken off shelves as well.
 
mschmidt64 said:
Wow, maybe. I do not know anyone like that.
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I don't either, and I have lived in Texas my entire life. In some really small East Texas towns when I was younger. You don't get much more redneck than that in Texas.
 
 
 
More swift action on the stupid flag than what actually caused the tragedy.
 
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