2025 Random NFL Stuff Thread…

[Irving Cowboy]

He just tied Harvey Martin anyway.

Which happened in a 14-game season, BTW.

 

[Sheik]

 

[Genghis Khan]

He just tied Harvey Martin anyway.

Which happened in a 14-game season, BTW.

Google says Martin had 23 sacks in a season. That sounds vaguely familiar but when I look on Pro Football Reference it says the most he had was 20 in 1977.

Anybody know what's true?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Google says Martin had 23 sacks in a season. That sounds vaguely familiar but when I look on Pro Football Reference it says the most he had was 20 in 1977.

Anybody know what's true?

I think before that it wasn't an official stat.

You know they could go back and watch film and get those old stats correct, but they don't care about older players.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I think before that it wasn't an official stat.

You know they could go back and watch film and get those old stats correct, but they don't care about older players.

I think they have though. It wasn't an official stat until 1982 but I think it was being tracked informally before it was official.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Here is Grok's explanation:

The discrepancy in Harvey Martin's 1977 sack total stems from the fact that sacks weren't an official NFL statistic until 1982, so all pre-1982 figures are unofficial and retrospective, often varying based on the source's methodology, such as reviews of game films, play-by-play accounts (gamebooks), team records, or contemporary media reports. The Dallas Cowboys' own records and media guides have credited Martin with 23 sacks for that 14-game season (a figure that has appeared inconsistently over the years, initially reported as 23, briefly corrected to 20 around 1990, and then reverting back to 23 by 2002).

This 23-sack total is what often shows up in Google searches, likely pulling from sources like Wikipedia or team-affiliated info, and it aligns with announcements in Dallas newspapers at the time, as well as Martin's own claims.

In contrast, Pro Football Reference (PFR) lists 20 sacks based on a more detailed, independent analysis of semi-official gamebooks, where sacks are counted with shared ones as half (e.g., one potential shared sack with Randy White in Week 9 could adjust it to 19.5 in some breakdowns).

Other football historians, like those at Pro Football Journal, have arrived at similar counts around 19.5–20 through film and record reviews.

Essentially, the higher 23 figure seems to come from looser or team-promoted tallies, while the 20 reflects stricter verification of plays. For context, even with 20, it's still an elite mark—tying the Cowboys' franchise record (set by DeMarcus Ware in a 16-game season) and leading the league that year.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Speaking of Grok and Martin:


Yes, I think Harvey Martin has a very strong case for the Pro Football Hall of Fame and should be in Canton—though it's understandable why he hasn't been inducted yet.

His resume is elite for a defensive end from the 1970s era:

• Super Bowl XII champion and co-MVP (shared with Randy White—the first and only time teammates have shared the award)
• 1977 NFL Defensive Player of the Year (AP and UPI)
• 4× Pro Bowl selections (1976–1979)
• First-team All-Pro in 1977, plus multiple second-team honors (1976, 1979, 1982)
• Member of the NFL's 1970s All-Decade Team (second team in some listings)
• Unofficial career sacks leader for the Cowboys with 114 (a franchise record that stood for ~30 years until DeMarcus Ware broke it), including a dominant 20–23 in 1977 (depending on source) in just a 14-game season—leading the league and one of the most impressive single-season pass-rush performances pre-sack officialization

He was a cornerstone of the legendary "Doomsday Defense" during the Cowboys' dynasty years, helping them reach multiple Super Bowls and dominate an era known for tough defenses. Many contemporaries, including former teammates like Drew Pearson, have called him one of the most overlooked greats from that golden era of Dallas football. Some analysts and columnists have argued he's a clear "snub" or the "next" Cowboys player who deserves serious consideration, especially now that the Seniors Committee process has advanced players like him in recent cycles (he was a semifinalist for the 2025 class).

That said, there are legitimate reasons he hasn't gotten in yet. The Hall of Fame voting process is notoriously tough for pre-1980s players, especially defensive linemen without official sack stats during much of their careers (though retrospective counts help). Martin's career was relatively short (11 seasons, ending amid personal struggles including a cocaine addiction he later admitted to, which led to his retirement after refusing a drug test). Personal issues can sometimes subtly influence voters, even if the Hall focuses on on-field performance. Compared to other defensive ends already in (like Randy White, his teammate, or later pass rushers), his peak was spectacular but his longevity and peak overlap with the era's defensive dominance make it a borderline (yet deserving) case.

His Hall of Fame Monitor score on Pro Football Reference (around 73–74) puts him in the top 20 among defensive ends historically, but below the average for inducted DEs (~102), which reflects the committee's high bar. Still, with recent pushes for overlooked 1970s players and the Seniors path opening up more spots, I believe he has a realistic shot in the coming years—especially if the Cowboys ever put him in their Ring of Honor first, as some have suggested that could build momentum.

In short: On pure football merit, yes—he belongs. He's one of the premier pass rushers of his time, with hardware that includes DPOY, Super Bowl MVP, and All-Decade recognition. The Hall would be richer with "Too Mean" Martin in it.

 

[Genghis Khan]

especially if the Cowboys ever put him in their Ring of Honor first

By the way, I keep forgetting about this bullshit but it's infuriating that's he's not in the Ring of Honor.

 

[Irving Cowboy]

All I know is Joe Burrow better stand by for a knock on his door from Mark Gastineau.

 

[bbgun]

 

[Genghis Khan]

Is there anyone who has had dumber opinions than Orlovsky? How is he still employed?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Is there anyone who has had dumber opinions than Orlovsky? How is he still employed?

Someone will probably overpay Willis. But not to that extent. And someone will make a bad mistake.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Someone will probably overpay Willis. But not to that extent. And someone will make a bad mistake.

Exactly. Willis won't come anywhere near that, just like Darnold didn't last year.

 

[Simpleton]

I think he's saying 40-50 total, over like 3 years, which seems plausible.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I think he's saying 40-50 total, over like 3 years, which seems plausible.

That I could see. Which I still think would be a mistake. With the mistake being think he is a starter. But maybe that's like high end backup, starter compition level pay.

 

[boozeman]

 

[bbgun]

I am similarly afflicted.

 

[Rev]

 

[Cotton]

You can do that?

 

[Bipo]

This isn't true.