2021 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread

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Cowboysrock55 said:
Even they have to know that's dumb. To say he is 78th implies that he isn't even a starting caliber corner. There are really only 64 starting NFL corners afterall. So he wouldn't just be the worst starting NFL corner, he would be worse than teams backup corners.

I mean shouldn't someone with PFF look at that and go, maybe our system isn't working right?
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so hes basically a 3rd level backup. Hilarious.
 
The below quote is a laughable opening that discredits their #45 ranking. Take away the names. Would you call any starting position player ranked #45 a “foundation piece” or having “an excellent season”?

Would they say this about the #45 ranked wide receiver?

“”
…no denying that Diggs is having an excellent second season, and he has already more than paid back the second-round draft pick the Cowboys spent on him. He looks like a foundation piece for a defense…
“”
 
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data said:
I also think their algorithm probably don’t have interceptions weighted highly enough nor distinguished properly.

Getting an interception ends the drive. In fact, it almost eliminates any yards a DB may have allowed during that entire drive. Does PFF’s algorithm consider that? If Trevon Diggs gave up same drive 5/5 completions for 50 yards but then recorded an INT on the sixth pass, the previous 5 completions should almost be negated.

Secondly, the location of the INT and subsequent return is a huge deal because of the point swing due to field position. Getting an INT in our red zone is nice because it stops a scoring drive, say 7 points for a TD, but getting an INT in our opponents red zone is worth more because it sets up our offense for our TD, you could consider a maximum of 14-point swing.

#1, Tampa Bay 20 yard line, no return
#2, Cowboys 20, no return
#3, Cowboys 40, (pick six)
#4, Cowboys 40, (retuned to Carolina 40)
#5, Carolina 30
#6, Cowboys 20, (Cowboys 40)
#7, Patriots 40, (pick six)
#8, Midfield
#9, Cowboys 40
#10, Cowboys end zone, (touchback to 20)
#11, Cowboys 30

Four of Diggs INTs put Cowboys offense in or almost scoring position. Combine that with two pick sixes.

How much does PFF weigh an INT over, say, a deflection? A sack? Even with a deflection or sack on 1st down, an offense can cancel that out next play second down with a big play. You can’t cancel out an INT. You could ballpark it and say Diggs 11 INT is probably worth as much as, if not more, than 22 sacks. How many drives end from those 22 sacks -just guessing around 11.
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Im sure they dont consider CB touchdowns or int yards either. Both of which Diggs leads the league.
 


Was it particularly "rowdy" on Sunday? I did not notice watching the game but this is the second time McCarthy has mentioned the crowd.
 
FYI, yesterdays PFF article states they have Diggs #45. I stated in my original post today that they show Diggs #78. Tell me if I’m misreading this.

Here’s the link for #78. You have to click to next page, since each page only lists 50 at a time. :lol

NFL CB Position Grades

PFF's exclusive metrics provide Cornerback (CB) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
 
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data said:
FYI, yesterdays PFF article states they have Diggs #45. I stayed in my original post today that they show Diggs #78. Tell me if I’m misreading this.

Here’s the link for #78. You have to click to next page, since each page only lists 50 at a time. :lol

NFL CB Position Grades

PFF's exclusive metrics provide Cornerback (CB) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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Why are you people concerned about ranking snubs so much? Yeah sometimes one might mildly set me off but I get over it.
 
ravidubey said:
You hit the nail on the head.

These guys are buffoons, trying to say some of his interceptions would have happened with any old CB in there. They talk about his being among the worst in yardage allowed, in run support, and being penalized.

Whatever.

I don’t think they understand how huge interceptions are and conveniently ignore his 20+ passes defended. Complete douche nozzles
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I also don't believe the amount of yards they say he gives up, it's an arbitrary number they've assigned to him that they are pretending is truth.
 
boozeman said:
Why are you people concerned about ranking snubs so much? Yeah sometimes one might mildly set me off but I get over it.
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This isn’t just a ranking snub of some Twitter schlub. This is discrediting the already-hotly-contested field of analytics.

For me the intrigue is moreso analyzing the weaknesses of PFFs algorithms, not really I’m offended for Trevon Diggs.
 
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data said:
Oh this is rich. Googling Trevon Diggs, first result is a PFF article defending their ranking. Just published yesterday. It’s free to public. Must feel very necessary to defend themselves. Correction from above post, PFF states they have Diggs at #45, even though their website shows Diggs as the 78th name on the list, which I assumed means rank #78.

www.pff.com

Why Trevon Diggs' PFF grade doesn't reflect his interception total

Dallas Cowboys second-year corner Trevon Diggs has made his name known this season by picking off opposing quarterbacks 11 times so far. He even made the Pro Bowl. But his gaudy interception total doesn't mean as much when you consider how much he's given up this year.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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During the Washington game they had him at like 90. :lol It's beyond ludicrous.
 
Diggs takes chances, he’ll get beat every now and again, wgas?

There isn’t a corner in the league I’d trade him for. Show me who PFF grades as the best corner and let me know if the defense he plays for leads the league in giving the ball back to its offense. That’s the name of the game.
 
data said:
This isn’t just a ranking snub of some Twitter schlub. This is discrediting the already-hotly-contested field of analytics.
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And people quote this sort of stuff as if it's gospel. They put it on the Sunday night broadcast for god's sake.
 
data said:
FYI, yesterdays PFF article states they have Diggs #45. I stated in my original post today that they show Diggs #78. Tell me if I’m misreading this.

Here’s the link for #78. You have to click to next page, since each page only lists 50 at a time. :lol

NFL CB Position Grades

PFF's exclusive metrics provide Cornerback (CB) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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They have Kyle Fuller ranked 18th. Fuller was benched and supposedly they wanted to trade him. 18th ranked corner though. :jerk

They also have 2 Eagles corners ranked top 10. And a third one ranked ahead of Diggs.

They are in other words trying to tell us Diggs would be the 4th corner at best on the eagles. :lol


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boozeman said:


Was it particularly "rowdy" on Sunday? I did not notice watching the game but this is the second time McCarthy has mentioned the crowd.
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I think the crowd was waiving towels in the most recent game.

During post game interview, a few players mentioned how much they appreciated the crowd support.

It stuck out to me too.
 
data said:
PFF play-by-play grades work on a +2 to -2 scale along 0.5 increments.
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Part of PFF’s grading system is in differentiating between the quality of the play and not simply the result…there is a substantial difference between a defender reading the route and breaking in front of the receiver for the pick and catching a pass that lands straight in his lap after hitting the intended receiver in the hands…and will be graded differently. That difference in grade is important because one is a repeatable skill, and the other is not.
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1. Yup. Interceptions are grossly undervalued

I’m assuming a ‘skilled’ INT gets maximum of their positive score, I’m assuming 2 points. A ‘luck’ INT probably gets 1.5 or 1.0

Their scale only allows for 9 value choices, from -2 to 2 in increments of 0.5.

Probably an accurate guess when I say being burnt on a few 15 yard completions would completely negate a ‘skilled’ INT, let alone ‘luck’ INT.

2. I’m going to add that PFF’s grading system penalizes too heavily for pass completions. In today’s pass-friendly NFL, there are going to be completions. There are going to be yards given up. Giving up a 30-yard pass on a drive isn’t cataclysmic. It may not even lead to a score. An INT conclusively ends a drive. One shouldn’t cancel out the other. The INT is worth more. In chess, you wouldn’t rank a trade equal for a pawn vs rook.

Overall, I get what PFF is trying to say, but they’re doubling down instead of a mea culpa. Interceptions are hard to place a numerical value. Just like Barry Bonds home runs vs his strikeouts. PFF might be better served to come out and say here are the grades without interceptions and you the fan add your own interception score.

I’m interested to see how much they penalize QBs with interceptions. What was Jamie’s Winston’s ranking in 2019 when he had high YPA, league leading yardage, but 30 INTs?

3. However, beyond INTs, I still think something’s wrong with PFFs system. Assuming INTs brought Diggs up to #45, they’re saying that sans-INTs, Diggs would drop to, what, #60? #80? Even if Diggs only had 2 INTs, he’s playing starter level DB.
 
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