2017 Combine Thread...

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't have time to investigate much any more.

I listen to the DC.com Draft Show and Brugler is on it. He is not that high on Taco.

I really like Taco but thats because I saw him absolutely take over games from the DE position in college. Same reason why I love Barnett so much as well.

I'm not concerned about how good guys like Bruglar think they are, I'm mostly just concerned if they will last until pick 28 or not.

 

[boozeman]

I don't have time to investigate much any more.

I listen to the DC.com Draft Show and Brugler is on it. He is not that high on Taco.

I am not exactly all on his jock either. But he will go in the first based on his traits.

 

[Simpleton]

Taco is 277, I wouldn't expect someone that size to run anything below a 4.75 or so, and only the freak show top 10 types are in the 4.6's at that size for the most part. The 4.92 is a little disappointing but nothing that would detract me from taking him at 28.

 

[Hoffa]

And Kiper has him going number 8 in his mock draft. Surprised to see Bruglar has him that low. There was a lot of talk leading up to the combine that he could go top 10. I'm hoping the forty time has at least put an end to that.

I've seen a lot of comparisons to Chandler Jones and people thinking the Pats would take him if he's there.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Taco is 277, I wouldn't expect someone that size to run anything below a 4.75 or so, and only the freak show top 10 types are in the 4.6's at that size for the most part. The 4.92 is a little disappointing but nothing that would detract me from taking him at 28.

I totally agree. I certainly wasn't trying to give the impression that it bothered me that he ran a 4.92. My fear was that if he ran a 4.75 there isn't a chance in hell he makes it to us in the draft. Watching him he looked like a very long, lean and explosive athlete. Forty times for DE's aren't that big of a deal to me.

Hell Charles Harris only ran like a 4.82 at 255 pounds but he looked great in the drills. Looks far more explosive then Jordan Willis for example who ran a 4.53 at basically the same weight. I mean this is what NFL.com basically said about his performance:

Charles Harris, DE, Missouri: There's nothing like watching a smooth, fluid athlete move around in space in an effortless manner. Harris breezed through positional drills while displaying exceptional balance, body control, and quickness. Expect his draft stock to surge upward with teams employing 3-4/4-3 hybrid schemes; they'll covet his skills as a potential stand-up defender. Harris was one of the few prospects in DL group drills to show impressive skills as a rusher and in coverage. Considering how multi-faceted athletes are valued on draft day, Harris' dazzling exhibition should boost his draft prospects.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I've seen a lot of comparisons to Chandler Jones and people thinking the Pats would take him if he's there.

He is like a bigger Chandler Jones. Who for comparison's sake ran a 4.87 forty. Sort of tells you how not important it ultimately is for a pass rusher.

 

[Hoffa]

I get the anger and frustration.

But where on earth is this defensive playmaker?

Who picks off a billion gazillion passes while at the same time playing against top shelf competition?

It is far easier to identify great offensive talent versus defense.

On defense, you need to go more off of traits.

Even in the NFL, you have "playmakers" where marginally skilled corners can end up leading the NFL in INTs.

Jeff Heath has led this team in INTs (making plays) the last two seasons.

Is he our best defender?

There's got to be a happy medium between picking off a billion gazillion passes and picking off one over three years.

I don't need the guy to lead the NCAA in sacks and INT's simultaneously, but I need some production to match up to the combine numbers.

I'm very wary of these hybrid guys. I don't like them, I didn't like Sua Cravens last year - even though instinctually as a football player he's miles ahead of Peppers, although Peppers is clearly the better athlete. One year later, the Redskins still can't figure out what to do with him. I see a similar fate; you try him at safety until you realize - like Michigan did - that he can't really cover anyone, so you play him up in the box, even though he's really not big enough to be a difference maker there in the NFL.

His best case scenario is a more athletic Mark Barron.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

There's got to be a happy medium between picking off a billion gazillion passes and picking off one over three years.

I don't need the guy to lead the NCAA in sacks and INT's simultaneously, but I need some production to match up to the combine numbers.

I'm very wary of these hybrid guys. I don't like them, I didn't like Sua Cravens last year - even though instinctually as a football player he's miles ahead of Peppers, although Peppers is clearly the better athlete. One year later, the Redskins still can't figure out what to do with him. I see a similar fate; you try him at safety until you realize - like Michigan did - that he can't really cover anyone, so you play him up in the box, even though he's really not big enough to be a difference maker there in the NFL.

That's not really true though. Michigan actually used him a ton at corner. As a sophomore of 789 snaps 468 came from the slot corner position and 147 of those snaps as an outside corner. While doing that QBs had a QB rating of 76.5 throwing against him. So it's not like Michigan was disappointed with his coverage ability. He was actually great in coverage minus the lack of INTs. Everything I have read and heard was that Michigan moved him to LBer because they had a much bigger need there.

Other then the lack of INTs I think Peppers could really play safety, LBer or corner in the NFL. Now the question is, can he play one of those positions at an elite level. I think that would clearly be at safety. But his lack of experience playing just normal deep zone coverage would be my concern. And it's probably why he doesn't have many INTs. This isn't a Cravens who can't cover well enough to play safety. That's not the issue with Peppers.

 

[boozeman]

I'm very wary of these hybrid guys. I don't like them, I didn't like Sua Cravens last year - even though instinctually as a football player he's miles ahead of Peppers, although Peppers is clearly the better athlete. One year later, the Redskins still can't figure out what to do with him. I see a similar fate; you try him at safety until you realize - like Michigan did - that he can't really cover anyone, so you play him up in the box, even though he's really not big enough to be a difference maker there in the NFL.

His best case scenario is a more athletic Mark Barron.

Then maybe the problem is the coaches.

It is pretty easy to see tangible talent. And most people can look at Peppers and see that.

The fact that it does not fit your everyday NFL coordinators, most who are recycled products of a good old boys network, is what it is.

Just identify the issue.

We have a problem with Marinelli.

A good chunk of the available talent in any draft goes in the trash because it does not fit his parameters.

If you can't find a spot for Peppers and you have found a spot for pieces of crap like Jeff Heath several times over, that is the scheme.

That means you are married to it and you just need to GTFO with it when you retire.

 

[Simpleton]

If Church isn't brought back and we drafted Peppers to replace him, as well as re-signing Wilcox to maintain his role as the single high safety, then I'd get it. Similar to how I'd want to re-sign Wilcox and sign someone like Swearinger to replace Church's box safety role.

I don't really get Peppers along with Church, they're redundant. Sure, you could argue just get rid of Church but clearly that isn't happening if we re-sign him, and I think the roles they play are too similar.

Neither is a guy you want as the single-high in a Cover-3 type look, both are good against the run, can blitz, and generally will be in coverage in short/intermediate zones and not 30 yards downfield.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If Church isn't brought back and we drafted Peppers to replace him, as well as re-signing Wilcox to maintain his role as the single high safety, then I'd get it. Similar to how I'd want to re-sign Wilcox and sign someone like Swearinger to replace Church's box safety role.

I don't really get Peppers along with Church, they're redundant. Sure, you could argue just get rid of Church but clearly that isn't happening if we re-sign him, and I think the roles they play are too similar.

Neither is a guy you want as the single-high in a Cover-3 type look, both are good against the run, can blitz, and generally will be in coverage in short/intermediate zones and not 30 yards downfield.

I don't want to bring Church back specifically for the reason you mentioned. He would prevent us from bringing in a more talented player. And make no mistake Peppers is a way more gifted player. Hell so is Budda Baker.

I know I kind of skipped past the name that was mentioned earlier but I'd love Adoree Jackson as well. Smaller corner but when you combine elite athletic ability and play making ability I am in. Plus he is a top notch return man. He is on the shorter side but I don't think that's all that big of a deal at corner. We see small guys play great there all the time.

 

[Smitty]

When I hear people say Peppers doesn't have a defined spot, that scares me.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

When I hear people say Peppers doesn't have a defined spot, that scares me.

I get it, but part of that is just the way Michigan used him. They moved him all around so now people have a hard time defining his position. If they had played him at safety his whole career I doubt this would be an issue.

 

[Hoffa]

That's not really true though. Michigan actually used him a ton at corner. As a sophomore of 789 snaps 468 came from the slot corner position and 147 of those snaps as an outside corner. While doing that QBs had a QB rating of 76.5 throwing against him. So it's not like Michigan was disappointed with his coverage ability. He was actually great in coverage minus the lack of INTs. Everything I have read and heard was that Michigan moved him to LBer because they had a much bigger need there.

Other then the lack of INTs I think Peppers could really play safety, LBer or corner in the NFL. Now the question is, can he play one of those positions at an elite level. I think that would clearly be at safety. But his lack of experience playing just normal deep zone coverage would be my concern. And it's probably why he doesn't have many INTs. This isn't a Cravens who can't cover well enough to play safety. That's not the issue with Peppers.

How many players can you think in the history of modern football who were elite, or even great, at their position that got moved to an entirely different position (not talking 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB) because they had a "need"?

If Peppers was the real deal as a DB, there wouldn't have been a second thought given about putting him in a spot with an entirely different role and set of responsibilities.

That's the same reason (although not the advertised reason) Cravens got moved to LB in college too, by the way. The exact reason you said - "can't cover well enough."

 

[Hoffa]

Then maybe the problem is the coaches.

It is pretty easy to see tangible talent. And most people can look at Peppers and see that.

The fact that it does not fit your everyday NFL coordinators, most who are recycled products of a good old boys network, is what it is.

Just identify the issue.

We have a problem with Marinelli.

A good chunk of the available talent in any draft goes in the trash because it does not fit his parameters.

If you can't find a spot for Peppers and you have found a spot for pieces of crap like Jeff Heath several times over, that is the scheme.

That means you are married to it and you just need to GTFO with it when you retire.

I don't disagree about Marinelli, but how many "hybrid" guys like Peppers are lighting the NFL on fire? Maybe the league hasn't caught up, or maybe most of these guys can do a little of this and a little of that, but don't do any one thing really well.

The problem isn't whether you can "find a spot" - the problem is whether he's good enough to spend a first round pick on to "find a spot" and figure out what he's actually good at.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

How many players can you think in the history of modern football who were elite, or even great, at their position that got moved to an entirely different position (not talking 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB) because they had a "need"?

If Peppers was the real deal as a DB, there wouldn't have been a second thought given about putting him in a spot with an entirely different role and set of responsibilities.

That's the same reason (although not the advertised reason) Cravens got moved to LB in college too, by the way. The exact reason you said - "can't cover well enough."

Darren Woodson is the first one off the top of my head.

Of course I haven't seen many college players who played both corner and LBer at high levels.

 

[NoDak]

In no particular order, interested in seeing how these guys test today.

Chidobe Awuzie
Rasul Douglas
Adoree Jackson
Fabian Moreau
Kevin King

Justin Evans
Obi Melifonwu
Xavier Woods
Jordan Sterns
Weston Steelhammer

 

[Deuce]

Shaq Griffin just ran a 4.39 and 4.40 to go along with his big frame.

aaaaaand boom goes the dynamite.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Man I just don't know about Barnett.

4.8 at 259 pounds raises a couple of flags add in the fact that he also has short arms and it really makes me wary.

I think I would take Reddick over him if both are available at 28.

 

[NoDak]

Obi Melifonwu made himself some money today. 11' 9" broad jump. 44" vertical. And a 4.40 40 yd dash.