2016 POTUS Election Thread

[L.T. Fan]

The main difference to me between Hillary and Trump is not morality. It's a competence gap.

Hillary won't need to be set down and taught about the Middle East. (Hell she's part of the reason it's so fucked right now) She doesn't need to have the nuclear triad explained to her. She doesn't think she can renegotiate the US's debt. Hillary offers more or less a continuation of the same flawed administrations dating back to Carter. Which is not good, but we won't be recovering from the worldwide economic catastrophe of having a complete laymen as our president.

If she is the reason the mid east is screwed up why would anyone want her to to have even more exposure to it?

 

[townsend]

If she is the reason the mid east is screwed up why would anyone want her to to have even more exposure to it?

Because if a surgeon left some forceps in me and the only options to get it removed is the same surgeon or the mouthy janitor, you cross your fingers and hope the surgeon learned from their mistake.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The main difference to me between Hillary and Trump is not morality. It's a competence gap.

Hillary won't need to be set down and taught about the Middle East. (Hell she's part of the reason it's so fucked right now)

So she knows something, but what she knows is how to screw things up. Seems to me, anyone can manage that.

Economics is what I'm most concerned about. There are enough checks and balances for me to know that neither person will lead us into WWIII. Gay Marriage, Abortions and other such things are never going to be reversed. But our economy is not good right now and it's not headed in a good direction. The problem is I have no faith in Hilary or Trump to fix it. I doubt either will destroy the economy as you suggest but I think they will both continue down the slow and dying path that we are currently headed down. One with unfair and over burdensome regulation and a tax system so thick that no one actually understands it. Our government is tangled up in so many things and so many industries that it is choking out the private sector. Considering the private sector is what funds everything, we aren't headed in a good direction.

 

[townsend]

So she knows something, but what she knows is how to screw things up. Seems to me, anyone can manage that.

Economics is what I'm most concerned about. There are enough checks and balances for me to know that neither person will lead us into WWIII. Gay Marriage, Abortions and other such things are never going to be reversed. But our economy is not good right now and it's not headed in a good direction. The problem is I have no faith in Hilary or Trump to fix it. I doubt either will destroy the economy as you suggest but I think they will both continue down the slow and dying path that we are currently headed down. One with unfair and over burdensome regulation and a tax system so thick that no one actually understands it. Our government is tangled up in so many things and so many industries that it is choking out the private sector. Considering the private sector is what funds everything, we aren't headed in a good direction.

Unfortunately deregulation from the Clintons is what scares me most. Bill got rid of Glass-Steagle, and she was perfectly content to sign off on the Keystone Pipeline. I see her as almost being closer to W than Obama. In some ways Trump might be even more liberal than Hillary.

But Trump has no kind of temperament for the Presidency. I think you underestimate the impact in confidence that having a man with almost zero control over his own mouth as the US president would have.

As I've said if you require surgery, you hire the surgeon, even if they have a less than stellar success rate. No matter how confident the janitor is. If your options for starting QB is Kellen Moore or Donald Trump you suit up Kellen Moore and hope he can minimize turnovers.

I admit freely that Hillary is flawed, she's just so much less flawed than Trump it's not even close. If Ryan runs against her in 2020, I'll likely vote for him instead, unless he becomes much worse or she manages to surprise me.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Because if a surgeon left some forceps in me and the only options to get it removed is the same surgeon or the mouthy janitor, you cross your fingers and hope the surgeon learned from their mistake.

Or you get a surgeon that doesn't have a track record of leaving equipment in a patient.

 

[townsend]

Or you get a surgeon that doesn't have a track record of leaving equipment in a patient.

That would be ideal, however none are available. The only other option is a guy whose level of knowledge on the subject doesn't even equate to a casual interest, and has zero experience whatsoever.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

As I've said if you require surgery, you hire the surgeon, even if they have a less than stellar success rate. No matter how confident the janitor is. If your options for starting QB is Kellen Moore or Donald Trump you suit up Kellen Moore and hope he can minimize turnovers.

I think you give too much credit to the skill required to be a politician. It's a job where too much specialized training (As in being a lifer politician) often turns them into something we don't want. It's why term limits exist. Politicians don't automatically get better at their jobs over time. Now that doesn't make Trump qualified either necessarily. Just means that taking bribes for 10+ years doesn't make you any better either. Surgeon's on the other hand generally speaking get better with additional experience.

 

[townsend]

I think you give too much credit to the skill required to be a politician. It's a job where too much specialized training (As in being a lifer politician) often turns them into something we don't want. It's why term limits exist. Politicians don't automatically get better at their jobs over time. Now that doesn't make Trump qualified either necessarily. Just means that taking bribes for 10+ years doesn't make you any better either. Surgeon's on the other hand generally speaking get better with additional experience.

We're not just talking about a politician. We're talking about the commander-in-chief of the largest military and the largest arsenal in human history. Being a politician is an easy job, more or less. Being president is one of the single most grueling occupations ever. No one ages 20 years during a term in the senate. Every president looks like a shell of themselves after about 5 years.

I think you deeply underestimate the difficulty of being president. In fact a lot of the worst mistakes of a President's career is while they're learning the ropes, Bosnia, the Iran Hostage Crisis, The Bay of Pigs, 9/11, The Iraq War, and Libya all occurred inside a president's first term in office. Bush senior had one of the least problematic terms (apart from dealing with the budget Reagan wrecked) and he was a 8 year VP who had been head of the CIA. So I absolutely think expertise matters.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I think you give too much credit to the skill required to be a politician. It's a job where too much specialized training (As in being a lifer politician) often turns them into something we don't want. It's why term limits exist. Politicians don't automatically get better at their jobs over time. Now that doesn't make Trump qualified either necessarily. Just means that taking bribes for 10+ years doesn't make you any better either. Surgeon's on the other hand generally speaking get better with additional experience.

Yeah it's like things are really going great with the track record of all the skilled politicians who have been in charge. I am willing to bet a non politician probably could have done as well.

 

[L.T. Fan]

We're not just talking about a politician. We're talking about the commander-in-chief of the largest military and the largest arsenal in human history. Being a politician is an easy job, more or less. Being president is one of the single most grueling occupations ever. No one ages 20 years during a term in the senate. Every president looks like a shell of themselves after about 5 years.

I think you deeply underestimate the difficulty of being president. In fact a lot of the worst mistakes of a President's career is while they're learning the ropes, Bosnia, the Iran Hostage Crisis, The Bay of Pigs, 9/11, The Iraq War, and Libya all occurred inside a president's first term in office. Bush senior had one of the least problematic terms (apart from dealing with the budget Reagan wrecked) and he was a 8 year VP who had been head of the CIA. So I absolutely think expertise matters.

But it's those politicians who become Presidents and that's where the skill level goes to crap. Someone with management skills is what is needed and I think Hillary is woefully short there. It's not called the chief executives office for nothing.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We're not just talking about a politician. We're talking about the commander-in-chief of the largest military and the largest arsenal in human history. Being a politician is an easy job, more or less. Being president is one of the single most grueling occupations ever. No one ages 20 years during a term in the senate. Every president looks like a shell of themselves after about 5 years.

So by that assessment that only training that would prepare you to really be president, is to have already been president.

Personally I'd take someone with legitimate expertise on Macro Economics. We need more math and science people and less poly sci majors in my opinion.

 

[townsend]

So by that assessment that only training that would prepare you to really be president, is to have already been president.

Personally I'd take someone with legitimate expertise on Macro Economics. We need more math and science people and less poly sci majors in my opinion.

It's one way of learning, but most presidents don't start as far beyond the curve as Trump would. Hence why H.W. didn't have such a slow start. The presidents that learn while doing do so at the nation's expense, and Trump's level of knowledge would require him to learning by doing with every facet of his job. That's Herbert Hoover territory, who never learned how to be president.

Macroeconomic expertise would be pretty great for a President, I'm not sure what profession would lead to that, other than a professor on economics. I'd support an economic professor who spent some time on capital hill to

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Macroeconomic expertise would be pretty great for a President, I'm not sure what profession would lead to that, other than a professor on economics. I'd support an economic professor who spent some time on capital hill to

Yeah, I mean I like the idea of someone who has been successful running a business but the problem I see with that is that they may know what it takes to make a singular business successful but as a President you need to be concerned about the entire economy. My ideal candidate would be someone with an academic background in economics who also owned and successfully ran a business. I'd care more about that then someone who has experience in the Senate or House any day. Of course most truly successful business people prefer to sit behind the scenes then to actually take over the country and try to make it successful.

 

[townsend]

Yeah, I mean I like the idea of someone who has been successful running a business but the problem I see with that is that they may know what it takes to make a singular business successful but as a President you need to be concerned about the entire economy. My ideal candidate would be someone with an academic background in economics who also owned and successfully ran a business. I'd care more about that then someone who has experience in the Senate or House any day. Of course most truly successful business people prefer to sit behind the scenes then to actually take over the country and try to make it successful.

The issue with being in the congress is actually getting traction for your ideas, especially when you have an opposing party in office. You need to know how to lobby, threaten, beg, borrow, and steal to get your policies through. Obviously there are some things that can be done by executive order, but you face a real uphill battle without congress on your side.

I'd say a lot of really successful people behind the scenes actually do control the country, and have had a large hand in making it less successful. The same "investors" I'm worried about Hillary catering to.

 

[L.T. Fan]

It's one way of learning, but most presidents don't start as far beyond the curve as Trump would. Hence why H.W. didn't have such a slow start. The presidents that learn while doing do so at the nation's expense, and Trump's level of knowledge would require him to learning by doing with every facet of his job. That's Herbert Hoover territory, who never learned how to be president.

Macroeconomic expertise would be pretty great for a President, I'm not sure what profession would lead to that, other than a professor on economics. I'd support an economic professor who spent some time on capital hill to

I think Trump may be more intelligent than Hillary. At any rate she can't that much ahead of everyone else.

 

[townsend]

As far as business owner stuff, I'd be very interested in someone who built up a small business on their own. Not so much if they're just an executive like Cheney, Trump, or Herman Cain. I'd like to see a president interested in creating an even playing field for small businesses.

 

[townsend]

I think Trump may be more intelligent than Hillary. At any rate she can't that much ahead of everyone else.

I think the fact that you think that shows a spectacular lack of understanding of these two candidates. Even among her most vocal critics, I've never heard Hillary described as unintelligent. She didn't start with 500 million in the bank to play with. She was a middle class gal who got into an Ivy League school, who got through law school, who had a successful law practice, who was a fundamental part her husband's two gubernatorial victories, and a presidential victory against an incumbent with plenty of obstacles. She is the very first woman to be a main party nominee, and she sure as shit didn't do it with charisma. Say what you will about her character, but I don't think anyone who's paying attention could question her intelligence. I'm pretty sure that without Hillary, Clinton would be selling cars in Arkansas somewhere.

The Donald's intelligence, particularly in matters outside of real estate, is highly questionable. I've paraded out time and time again his 3rd grade vocabulary, his failed business ventures, his child like attempts to bully rival candidates, his well displayed ignorance over the economy, the nuclear arsenal, foreign policy, the 1st amendment, the internet. Even if he was incredibly intelligent, I don't think he has the willingness to learn. He had the opportunity to brush up on foreign policy well before his now, Hillary knew more about this stuff as a first lady then Trump does as a presumptive nominee.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I think the fact that you think that shows a spectacular lack of understanding of these two candidates. Even among her most vocal critics, I've never heard Hillary described as unintelligent. She didn't start with 500 million in the bank to play with. She was a middle class gal who got into an Ivy League school, who got through law school, who had a successful law practice, who was a fundamental part her husband's two gubernatorial victories, and a presidential victory against an incumbent with plenty of obstacles. She is the very first woman to be a main party nominee, and she sure as shit didn't do it with charisma. Say what you will about her character, but I don't think anyone who's paying attention could question her intelligence. I'm pretty sure that without Hillary, Clinton would be selling cars in Arkansas somewhere.

The Donald's intelligence, particularly in matters outside of real estate, is highly questionable. I've paraded out time and time again his 3rd grade vocabulary, his failed business ventures, his child like attempts to bully rival candidates, his well displayed ignorance over the economy, the nuclear arsenal, foreign policy, the 1st amendment, the internet. Even if he was incredibly intelligent, I don't think he has the willingness to learn. He had the opportunity to brush up on foreign policy well before his now, Hillary knew more about this stuff as a first lady then Trump does as a presumptive nominee.

And how did you gain such clever insights seeing as though you have no better vantage point than the average Joe? You obviously think highly of yourself and how you are so far above the rest.

 

[Smitty]

I'm pretty sure that without Hillary, Clinton would be selling cars in Arkansas somewhere.

Oh lord.

 

[Smitty]

And how did you gain such clever insights seeing as though you have no better vantage point than the average Joe? You obviously think highly of yourself and how you are so far above the rest.

Seriously, this guy makes me look like Mother Theresa.