2021 NFL Draft Thread

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ravidubey said:
I’m saying we can do better with maybe up to 5 QBs and 3 WRs pushing other really good players down. It’s more like we are picking in the 6-8 range.
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If Sewell is there at 10 that's a tough choice, I'll say that.
 
ravidubey said:
This is exactly my point, Surtain is not Ramsey.

In that same draft Eli Apple and Vernon Hargreaves went 11th and 12th. That’s more in the range of Surtain, as CBs get drafted higher than they should

These QBs and WRs are giving a shot at better than normal talent for the 10th pick.

One of the OTs or Parsons or Pitts.
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Surtain is closer to Ramsey than he is Apple or Hargreaves honestly.

I think you're letting what Ramsey has become cloud your memory of what he was as a prospect. Most here were not overly enthused with the idea of Ramsey at 4, including myself, because he lacked top-level ball production. He had elite height/weight/speed/athleticism for the position but only had 3 career INT's including 0 his last year in school.

In many ways he was a carbon copy of Surtain as a prospect, just a little bit longer and a bit more explosive, a sticky cover guy with ideal physical dimensions but lacking elite ball production.

Surtain actually had 1 more INT and 2 more PD's than Ramsey.

If we were picking at 4-5 I probably wouldn't be especially happy with Surtain either, just like I wasn't with Ramsey, but at 10 it's perfectly fine.
 
Simpleton said:
Surtain is closer to Ramsey than he is Apple or Hargreaves honestly.

I think you're letting what Ramsey has become cloud your memory of what he was as a prospect. Most here were not overly enthused with the idea of Ramsey at 4, including myself, because he lacked top-level ball production. He had elite height/weight/speed/athleticism for the position but only had 3 career INT's including 0 his last year in school.

In many ways he was a carbon copy of Surtain as a prospect, just a little bit longer and a bit more explosive, a sticky cover guy with ideal physical dimensions but lacking elite ball production.

Surtain actually had 1 more INT and 2 more PD's than Ramsey.

If we were picking at 4-5 I probably wouldn't be especially happy with Surtain either, just like I wasn't with Ramsey, but at 10 it's perfectly fine.
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I remember hoping for Zeke or Buckner and was similarly praying we would not take Ramsey whom a bunch of folks had mocked to our corner whore selves.

Definitely talking about Ramsey now vs the prospect who had not produced a lot of interceptions. Ramsey was known though for being a fiery leader which I think drove up his stock.

Even still, today Ramsey benefits a lot from having Aaron Donald in front of him.

Frankly, I’d almost never take a CB top ten short of flat out spectacular production. I would normally never even think of taking a TE top 10 either.
 
ravidubey said:
Even still, today Ramsey benefits a lot from having Aaron Donald in front of him.
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Absolutely

If Dallas would spend some FA $ to rebuild the DL, we'd have a hell of a lot better production at CB.
 
ravidubey said:
I remember hoping for Zeke or Buckner and was similarly praying we would not take Ramsey whom a bunch of folks had mocked to our corner whore selves.

Definitely talking about Ramsey now vs the prospect who had not produced a lot of interceptions. Ramsey was known though for being a fiery leader which I think drove up his stock.

Even still, today Ramsey benefits a lot from having Aaron Donald in front of him.

Frankly, I’d almost never take a CB top ten short of flat out spectacular production. I would normally never even think of taking a TE top 10 either.
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I totally agree with the general principle of not wanting to go CB top 10, we're just in a bit of a shitty situation and Surtain is probably the most likely defensive player in the draft to make multiple Pro Bowls.

Like, Micah Parsons is relatively raw, coming off an opt-out and when he lines up week 1 of the 2021 season he'll be almost a full 2 years removed from his last college snap. Rousseau is the same situation and had an average Pro Day to boot, Jaelan Phillips has concussion/health issues and almost quit football like a year ago, Barmore is pretty raw and inconsistent against the run, Ojulari is a dark horse but is a bit of a one year wonder and is analogous to a Chaisson last year, would we have been thrilled with taking Chaisson at 10 last year?

Probably not.

Trading down is obviously the dream but who the hell knows on that?

I'd 100% take Sewell and Pitts over Surtain (including trading up 2-3 spots for Sewell), Slater is not quite as definitive but I'd take him also, Parsons is really the only defensive player in the conversation aside from Surtain but he's not a slam dunk no-brainer necessarily either.

It's just a tough situation and while I might go back and forth over Parsons the margin is razor thin at the absolute best in Parsons' favor, so I'm not going to be a hardliner on that. Realistically Surtain is the best combination of very high floor/no real bust factor while still having elite size/speed upside, so while I'm definitely not gung-ho over the pick, I can recognize that it's at the very least one of the best options we have given the circumstances and not be upset with it.

Jaycee Horn is another story.
 
Simpleton said:
I'd 100% take Sewell and Pitts over Surtain (including trading up 2-3 spots for Sewell), Slater is not quite as definitive but I'd take him also, Parsons is really the only defensive player in the conversation aside from Surtain but he's not a slam dunk no-brainer necessarily either.

It's just a tough situation and while I might go back and forth over Parsons the margin is razor thin at the absolute best in Parsons' favor, so I'm not going to be a hardliner on that. Realistically Surtain is the best combination of very high floor/no real bust factor while still having elite size/speed upside, so while I'm definitely not gung-ho over the pick, I can recognize that it's at the very least one of the best options we have given the circumstances and not be upset with it.

Jaycee Horn is another story.
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Yeah I think Surtain is arguably the best defensive player in this draft. Like you mentioned he is a pretty safe bet to be a really good player with the upside to be great. I'd much prefer an elite front 4 player this high in the draft but there just isn't one in this draft. I do really like Parsons, and he is a guy I wasn't as high on to start out. But I think he has some special traits as a LBer. I'm not big on taking a LBer that high in the draft but I'd be cool with Parsons because I think he is a bit of a game wrecker in terms of his physicality. Just helps bring a tougher mindset to the defense.

Ultimately I wish there was a D-lineman I loved at the top of this draft. There just isn't one. I really like Barmore, probably more than most but I think 10 is too rich for him. I also think it's a pipe dream to think he falls out of the first round. I think Barmore has elite potential but unlike guys like Parsons and Surtain I think his floor is lower. He may never reach that potential.

I don't want Pitts, I think he is great. Physically he looks like a big WR to me. Nothing wrong with that though. With that wingspan and sub 4.5 type speed he could be a great WR/TE. But I just don't see the upside of taking him given our needs unless he ends up as an all timer. Which he could but even if he ends up being a very good TE, that doesn't really help us much given the construction of our current roster. On the other hand if Surtain ends up good but not great, that still fills a big need for this team and makes the team a lot better.

Sewell is great frankly for us. If we have a need on offense to me it's to get younger on the O-line with actually talented guys. And we all know what a special O-line can do in terms of pass protection and helping to control the clock with the running game.
 
Simpleton said:
Like, Micah Parsons is relatively raw, coming off an opt-out and when he lines up week 1 of the 2021 season he'll be almost a full 2 years removed from his last college snap.
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Unlike Rousseau though, Parsons killed his pro day. I'd have no problem taking him over Surtain and over Pitts, frankly. Only Sewell ranks higher for me.
 
ravidubey said:
Unlike Rousseau though, Parsons killed his pro day. I'd have no problem taking him over Surtain and over Pitts, frankly. Only Sewell ranks higher for me.
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I mean I could see loving Parsons. We won't do it because we continue to hitch up to some questionable LBers but our run defense was awful. Parsons should be a dynamo against the run and frankly anything 5-10 yards of the line of scrimmage. I don't usually like LBers this high but I can see falling in love with Parsons. I still think he is meh against the pass. But Parsons is going to put the hurt on some RBs.
 
ravidubey said:
Unlike Rousseau though, Parsons killed his pro day. I'd have no problem taking him over Surtain and over Pitts, frankly. Only Sewell ranks higher for me.
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Yea I'm fine with that perspective and would be completely happy with Parsons at 10, I just don't think there's much separation between him and Surtain as there is between say Sewell and Surtain, which is the crux of our general disagreement.

Definitely wouldn't take Parsons over Pitts though.
 
I also think Parsons has a lot of hidden potential in terms of impacting the pass rush with his blitzing ability, that depends heavily on how he's used though.
 
Simpleton said:
I also think Parsons has a lot of hidden potential in terms of impacting the pass rush with his blitzing ability, that depends heavily on how he's used though.
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Yeah and I always like to point out that I have no idea if the guy is a huge dick or a Dbag. I mean he could have all the physical tools in the world but if he is a mental midget it won't work out. We can all read stuff and say one thing or the other about his personality but none of us really know. I tend to think there is some question with Parsons because of the smoke but I have no real idea. I don't get to talk to him, his coaches, teammates and friends to see what kind of a guy he is.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Yeah and I always like to point out that I have no idea if the guy is a huge dick or a Dbag. I mean he could have all the physical tools in the world but if he is a mental midget it won't work out. We can all read stuff and say one thing or the other about his personality but none of us really know. I tend to think there is some question with Parsons because of the smoke but I have no real idea. I don't get to talk to him, his coaches, teammates and friends to see what kind of a guy he is.
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Indeed, that, combined with the fact that he's only played 2 years of LB (was a DE in HS) and that he sat out 2020 brings a decent amount of risk. Not so much that I'd be scared off of him at 10 but enough to where I can accept that Surtain is much safer while offering similar enough upside, albeit at a less desirable position.
 
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