2023 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread

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mcnuttz said:
Between Aikman and Romo seemed like an eternity, but it was just 5 or 6 years.

It's astonishing how fortunate we've been to have Romo and Dak for the last 15+ years.
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And we spent a grand total of one fourth round pick on them.

Yet people on here freaking out that we will go "decades," without finding another.

We found two with one mid round pick.

No, it's not impossible. It's not even particularly hard.

We are scarred from that post-Aikman era but the NFL doesn't work that way anymore. You suck, you pick at the top, you get Anthony Richardson, and he's a mediocre to ok QB or maybe he ends up actually good. Or he sucks and you try again in 3-4 years. It doesn't take "decades."

You can freak out that maybe Anthony Richardson is just "mediocre," but Dak isn't all that much better. He's ok to good, but not irreplaceable. Again, the difference between Dak and the middle is far smaller than the gap between Dak and the top.
 
bbgun said:
This is the first year anyone has considered Dak a "Top 10" qb, mainly because Brady retired and Wilson/Watson have fallen off a cliff.
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Ugh yeah no that's not true. Dude has been a top 10 QB for awhile now. On click glance I found a list that ranks him sixth going into last season.
 
Dak has been a fringe top 10 guy for a long time. Somewere between 8-12 depending on the year.

Though he's had more years where he's worse than that than years where he's better. He's had a couple years where he's approaching Colin Kaepernick territory.
 
Smitty said:
And we spent a grand total of one fourth round pick on them.

Yet people on here freaking out that we will go "decades," without finding another.

We found two with one mid round pick.

No, it's not impossible. It's not even particularly hard.

We are scarred from that post-Aikman era but the NFL doesn't work that way anymore. You suck, you pick at the top, you get Anthony Richardson, and he's a mediocre to ok QB or maybe he ends up actually good. Or he sucks and you try again in 3-4 years. It doesn't take "decades."

You can freak out that maybe Anthony Richardson is just "mediocre," but Dak isn't all that much better. He's ok to good, but not irreplaceable. Again, the difference between Dak and the middle is far smaller than the gap between Dak and the top.
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You're literally using the exception to the rule and trying to make it the new rule. How many of the top 15-20 NFL QBs were drafted outside of the first two rounds? And if you think Anthony Richardson is anywhere close to Dak right now I just don't even see the point in furthering the discussion. You've lost your marbles.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
You're literally using the exception to the rule and trying to make it the new rule.
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It's not the exception to the rule. No team goes through "decades," with terrible QB play and only a few even spend a decade without a QB roughly on Dak's level. It's just not that hard.

If you want to argue we can't pull a ten year starter from UDFA again, ok.... but we can find one in the first two rounds without much trouble.

And if you think Anthony Richardson is anywhere close to Dak right now I just don't even see the point in furthering the discussion. You've lost your marbles.
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I was not claiming that, try reading it again. I'm saying you get that type of guy and he usually develops into a middle of the pack starter. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. If worse you try again, it doesn't take "decades."
 
And again... if you are concerned about wasting "decades," then why are you so concerned about replacing a fringe top 10 starter?

Getting the top 5 guy is how you truly improve your odds of winning a Super Bowl.

Like, oh no, we might suck and pick at the top of the draft for 5 years in a row. And this is worse than what we've been, which is a second round exit at best for approaching 30 years? What's the scary part of picking at the top? We could actually get an elite guy if we have a sustained run at the bottom.

I know why Jerry fears it. He might be dead before we exit a rebuild. But for fans with a large portion of their life left, your best bet is getting a better QB, actually, and doing what it takes to get there.
 
Smitty said:
I was not claiming that, try reading it again. I'm saying you get that type of guy and he usually develops into a middle of the pack starter. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. If worse you try again, it doesn't take "decades."
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You're right, I did misread. You're hypothesizing that if he is an average starter. Which frankly is kind of a silly argument. No point in even listing Richardson then. But say you're right, so you think it's better to invest a top 5 NFL draft pick to get a guy who is worse than Dak, then to just keep your QB? Why the hell wouldn't you use the money to keep your QB, and invest the top 5 pick in an elite player at another position?

I'm assuming it's because you think the cap is some horrible obstacle but I disagree. The Cowboys keep the players they want to keep. Most of free agency is a joke. So yeah I don't worry a lot about the cap implications of having a QB who makes money.

Now your argument would sound great for not signing a dork like Daniel Jones or Mac Jones. I get it with those guys. But I think you underrate Dak. You always have.
 
Smitty said:
And again... if you are concerned about wasting "decades," then why are you so concerned about replacing a fringe top 10 starter?

Getting the top 5 guy is how you truly improve your odds of winning a Super Bowl.

Like, oh no, we might suck and pick at the top of the draft for 5 years in a row. And this is worse than what we've been, which is a second round exit at best for approaching 30 years? What's the scary part of picking at the top? We could actually get an elite guy if we have a sustained run at the bottom.

I know why Jerry fears it. He might be dead before we exit a rebuild. But for fans with a large portion of their life left, your best bet is getting a better QB, actually, and doing what it takes to get there.
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Doesn't even have to be a first rounder. Philly took Hurts despite having a well-paid, "more successful than not" QB. Of course, this would require Jerry and Stephen to have guts and imagination. Tall order, I know.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
You're right, I did misread. You're hypothesizing that if he is an average starter. Which frankly is kind of a silly argument. No point in even listing Richardson then. But say you're right, so you think it's better to invest a top 5 NFL draft pick to get a guy who is worse than Dak, then to just keep your QB? Why the hell wouldn't you use the money to keep your QB, and invest the top 5 pick in an elite player at another position?

I'm assuming it's because you think the cap is some horrible obstacle but I disagree. The Cowboys keep the players they want to keep. Most of free agency is a joke. So yeah I don't worry a lot about the cap implications of having a QB who makes money.
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At SOME POINT, the cap savings plus the return in trade plus the odds of getting a guy who is BETTER than Prescott (this is an actual, real possibility, especially if you combine assets to trade up), make it worthwhile to move on.

Not saying just dump Prescott and keep swinging for the fences... but.... he's been here like 8 years now. We know this story for the most part.

Entertaining moving him and risking cutting short what, the 3-4 years at a high level he might have left... like, oh no, I'll take my chances. I'm not concerned that I'm going to get stuck in "decades," of bad QB play. I'll find another fringe top 10 starter at least, I have literally zero concern about it.
 
Smitty said:
Getting the top 5 guy is how you truly improve your odds of winning a Super Bowl.
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Why do you cut it off at top 5? The funny part is it sounds great but who are your top 5 NFL QBs? Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert and Jalen Hurts (I pulled it off the first 2023 ranking I saw)? How many of those top 5 QBs have won a Superbowl? I'll give you the answer, Mahomes. That's it. But maybe that's a little unfair since Mahomes and Brady have won most of the Superbowls over the last decade.

Hell if you want to say Aaron Rodgers go for it. That dude hasn't even been to a Superbowl in over a decade. I think the fifth best NFL QB and the 10th best NFL QB are a lot closer than you're saying. I'd actually say a guy like Dak has by far won more consistently than the other average QB's that you claim are so close to him. The truth is the NFL right now elite list is Mahomes and that's it.
 
Smitty said:
We know this story for the most part.
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I don't think we really do. I think the evidence of this teams inability to build a Superbowl team predates Dak. I'd argue that it's probably an issue that goes deeper than just Dak and Tony weren't good enough. But with back to back 12 win seasons it is time for this team to take the next step. At least they have shown some consistency and positive progression under McCarthy. It's something we hadn't seen for a long time before that.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Why do you cut it off at top 5?
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I'm just rouding it off, but I would never put Dak into the tier of guys like Mahomes Burrow or Allen.

The funny part is it sounds great but who are your top 5 NFL QBs? Mahomes, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert and Jalen Hurts (I pulled it off the first 2023 ranking I saw)? How many of those top 5 QBs have won a Superbowl?
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There's no guarantees with anything, but how many on that list have BEEN to a Super Bowl or at least a conference championship game?

Oh, all of them except Herbert who is just 3 years into his career.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I don't think we really do. I think the evidence of this teams inability to build a Superbowl team predates Dak. I'd argue that it's probably an issue that goes deeper than just Dak and Tony weren't good enough. But with back to back 12 win seasons it is time for this team to take the next step. At least they have shown some consistency and positive progression under McCarthy. It's something we hadn't seen for a long time before that.
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Let me be clear: I'm not saying that Tony Romo "was not good enough" to win a Super Bowl, and while Dak isn't as good as Romo, I'm not entirely precluding that he could, in theory, also win a Super Bowl. Certainly worse QBs have.

What I'm arguing against is the idea that he's either so good (he's not) or so rare (he's not) that we can't ever entertain the idea of moving on until he's utterly outlived his usefulness here. It's preposterous.

You can find another Dak and it's not all that hard.

Again, we have gotten going on twenty years of QB service out of a single fourth round pick. Yeah, I'm not saying we are going to continue to find fringe top 10 QBs with mid round picks, but at the same time, no, it's not going to take us decades to find another fringe top 10 starter, especially if we invest a first or second, especially if we trade up, especially if we take into account the cap situation and assets we'd get back, etc, etc.

And the possibility we aren't even discussing is that it's entirely possible that if you do invest a first round pick or trade up to get your guy, I would actually say it's PROBABLE that you get someone better than Dak. Maybe it takes two tries, keep at it. Maybe you aren't gonna get Mahomes, Manning, Brady or Rodgers, but..... Drew Brees? Ben Roethlisberger? Matt Stafford? Lamar Jackson? Someone of that tier? Yeah they are very findable.
 
Smitty said:
Let me be clear: I'm not saying that Tony Romo "was not good enough" to win a Super Bowl, and while Dak isn't as good as Romo, I'm not entirely precluding that he could, in theory, also win a Super Bowl. Certainly worse QBs have.

What I'm arguing against is the idea that he's either so good (he's not) or so rare (he's not) that we can't ever entertain the idea of moving on until he's utterly outlived his usefulness here. It's preposterous.

You can find another Dak and it's not all that hard.
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At the very least, couldn't we use the occasional 2nd-4th rounder on a QB and develop him? If Dak somehow finds another gear, great, QBs are always in demand. But if he doesn't, you have a young guy who maybe has some promise to take over.

I don't think this has to be 100% ride Dak until the wheels fall off or ditch him now when you have no alternative. There can be a middle ground.
 
Chocolate Lab said:
At the very least, couldn't we use the occasional 2nd-4th rounder on a QB and develop him? If Dak somehow finds another gear, great, QBs are always in demand. But if he doesn't, you have a young guy who maybe has some promise to take over.

I don't think this has to be 100% ride Dak until the wheels fall off or ditch him now when you have no alternative. There can be a middle ground.
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This is fair. Especially when you routinely blow second round picks on risky guys like Schoonmaker.
 
Smitty said:
And the possibility we aren't even discussing is that it's entirely possible that if you do invest a first round pick or trade up to get your guy, I would actually say it's PROBABLE that you get someone better than Dak.
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You go so extreme that it makes your position silly. But you're implying that over 50% of first round QBs end up better than Dak when the truth is the vast majority never obtain his status. I'm not even talking outright busts which there are many of. Of first round QBs, here are the guys worse right now

Kenny Pickett, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Tua Tagovailoa, Jordan Love, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mitch Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, EJ Manuel, Andrew Luck (Ok, he retired but still), Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden.

QB's drafted in the first that are better than Dak right now over the same time period? Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes.

Even if you want to debate that guys like Lamar Jackson are better or that Trevor Lawrence may end up better. It's pretty clear that the overwhelming majority of first round QBs are worse than Dak. Most of them are far worse than Dak. It's just a hard position to draft. To say it's easy to find someone as good or better than Dak is a ridiculous position in my opinion. And frankly if you go outside of the first round your odds get even worse.
 
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