Watkins: Five takeaways from the Cowboys' win over the Redskins, including Dak Prescott's perfect second half*

[dbair1967]

Nightmare scenario: Cowboys have a good enough season to earn Garrett a new contract. Richard and Moore both get hired by other teams.

Based on what we've since the season ender last yr from Richard, I'm totally ok with him leaving.

His defense has pretty much been lousy since that Giant game to end last season.

 

[dbair1967]

The first part of the Redskins game was scarily reminiscent of the old Garrett offense.

You do understand we're not going to score every fucking time we have the ball right?

Even the greatest offense of all time have series' where they don't score or go 3 and out on occasion.

 

[Smitty]

You do understand we're not going to score every fucking time we have the ball right?

Even the greatest offense of all time have series' where they don't score or go 3 and out on occasion.

A quarter without a TD??? Damn predictable Garrett.

 

[NoDak]

Nah you know what I'm tired of being nice, you replied to my post with something I never said or implied...go yell at a cloud you senile fuck

You got LT'd.

 

[dbair1967]

A quarter without a TD??? Damn predictable Garrett.

There's going to be quarters here and there that the offense doesn't score. It happens, and it happens to all teams.

 

[ravidubey]

Nightmare scenario: Cowboys have a good enough season to earn Garrett a new contract. Richard and Moore both get hired by other teams.

This sounds like us

 

[1bigfan13]

Garrett is no Parcells or Jimmy but he is being a walk around coach and there is value in that. Apparently if you aren't being a coordinator as a head coach, you aren't doing anything.

No, that's not the case at all for most walk around coaches. But in Garrett's case I think there's a lot of truth to it.

The biggest indicator of his ineffectiveness is assistant coaches on his staff rarely if ever are considered for promotions elsewhere. Hell, he's been the head coach in Dallas for close to a decade and I can't think of a single assistant from the Cowboys staff who has gone on to receive a notable promotion elsewhere based on his work in Dallas and his association with Jason Garrett. The "Garrett coaching tree" is bare af.

 

[deadrise]

No, that's not the case at all for most walk around coaches. But in Garrett's case I think there's a lot of truth to it.

The biggest indicator of his ineffectiveness is assistant coaches on his staff rarely if ever are considered for promotions elsewhere. Hell, he's been the head coach in Dallas for close to a decade and I can't think of a single assistant from the Cowboys staff who has gone on to receive a notable promotion elsewhere based on his work in Dallas and his association with Jason Garrett. The "Garrett coaching tree" is bare af.

BINGO.

I don't know if Belichik is more than a walk around coach. He's had a lot of coordinators come and go, get promoted, but the basic tenor and character of the team never changes. I'm sure his players don't see him as a nice guy, and I'm sure he doesn't care.

Not that every HC can be a Belichik, but Garrett just seems to be a cipher. There's no "there" there.

 

[Smitty]

No, that's not the case at all for most walk around coaches. But in Garrett's case I think there's a lot of truth to it.

Ok, so please demonstrate to me what is different about Garrett as a walk-around coach than say, Mike Tomlin, Sean McDermott, Bruce Arians, Pat Shurmer, or Jay Gruden?

The biggest indicator of his ineffectiveness is assistant coaches on his staff rarely if ever are considered for promotions elsewhere.

How do we know it's rare? How often does it happen to other coaches? Let's see some numbers. Let's see how far behind he's lagging.

Because I suspect there is not much evidence for this statement besides anecdotal observations.

Please prove it.

...

Your position doesn't even make sense. So Garrett is doing nothing as a coach, but also, his coordinators are doing nothing, as evidenced by the fact that they never get promotions. So no coach is doing anything, led by Jerry Jones who is also doing nothing.

This rudderless ship keeps producing above average results though, amazingly enough.

"We're ultra talented," I keep hearing. Who is coaching all this talent? You don't need talent to be coached anymore for it to make the Divisional Round in 3 out of 5 seasons? Gee, why should about 4/5ths of the NFL's teams even bother paying head coaches anymore, then?

Dak Prescott was a 4th round pick that everyone hated and thought was selected a round or two too high. Yet he comes in with no coaching whatsoever and reels off all these playoff appearances and appears poised for another this year. Nobody is coaching him! A raw AF fourth round rookie QB needed no coaching! Forget the NFL Hall of Fame, this guy needs to be studied by medical science.

 

[Smitty]

BINGO.

I don't know if Belichik is more than a walk around coach. He's had a lot of coordinators come and go, get promoted, but the basic tenor and character of the team never changes. I'm sure his players don't see him as a nice guy, and I'm sure he doesn't care.

Not that every HC can be a Belichik, but Garrett just seems to be a cipher. There's no "there" there.

Well no one is comparing Garrett to Belichick.

So saying Garrett fails the Belichick test but then hedging with "Though not every coach can be Belichick...." is a cop out. Yes, everyone falls short of Belichick, but I've never, ever argued he's Belichick.

"He's not Belichick" is also not a credible argument for replacing him either.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Ok, so please demonstrate to me what is different about Garrett as a walk-around coach than say, Mike Tomlin, Sean McDermott, Bruce Arians, Pat Shurmer, or Jay Gruden?

Those guys all dictate either an offensive or defensive philosophy. They aren't reliant on a coordinator to show them how to run both sides of the ball.

 

[Smitty]

Those guys all dictate either an offensive or defensive philosophy. They aren't reliant on a coordinator to show them how to run both sides of the ball.

How do they do that? They pick a playbook and let their OC's run it? Details, please.

Because I call bullshit that Garrett isn't as involved as they are.

In fact, we know, and spent time bemoaning en masse on this board before Week 1, how Moore was "still calling Garrett's plays."

And out of the other side of everyone's hypocritical mouth on this issue, we had to hear unendingly about how Garrett's offense was the real reason Linehan couldn't produce.

Well, wait, is it Garrett's offense or isn't it?

I guess when it works, it's Moore, and Garrett adds nothing. When it doesn't, Garrett has his hands all over it.

Stop being fucking dishonest. This is Garrett's offense with some motion and concept tweaks that Moore has introduced. He is excelling (through two weeks) at running the offense, and it is a benefit to the team that Moore has taken on some of those responsibilities and Linehan (and Garrett) have taken less (Linehan none, because he was fired).

But this is no different than Gruden with O'Connell as his OC, Tomlin with Butler as his DC, McDermott with Frazier as his DC, Shurmer with Shula as his DC, etc, etc, etc.

I'm sure the rebuttal will now bring up an elite head coach such as Payton, Belichick, or Reid, while ignoring the heaps of also-ran head coaches who Garrett has essentially surpassed or outlived.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

LOL. Are those HCs neutered by their owners when the owner hires coordinators and tells the world, "And I told him to come to me if anyone interferes with him?"

 

[Smitty]

LOL. Are those HCs neutered by their owners when the owner hires coordinators and tells the world, "And I told him to come to me if anyone interferes with him?"

Submitting to owner interference is a qualification of every head coach who walks into this building.

Even Parcells had to have a meeting on the tarmac to go over ground rules before taking the job. And there's only one Parcells.

 

[1bigfan13]

Your position doesn't even make sense. So Garrett is doing nothing as a coach, but also, his coordinators are doing nothing, as evidenced by the fact that they never get promotions. So no coach is doing anything, led by Jerry Jones who is also doing nothing.

I didn't say he and his coaches "are doing nothing". I said they (specifically Garrett) are very ineffective. There's a difference.

He's average at best. Definitely not the worst coach in the league but he's middle of the pack at best. Always has been, and probably always will be. Not sure why you've always been so dug in on retaining a mediocre coach.

As far as Dak's development, I give more credit to Romo, and Wade Wilson than Garrett. Plus the further along we go down the road, the clearer it's becoming that NFL teams completely whiffed on their assessment of Dak Prescott leading up to the 2016 draft. Just like they've done several times before: Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Romo, Hasselback, etc.

Consider this. Dak immediately played at a high level during practices and training camp in 2016. And at that time he only had 3 months of NFL experience under his belt. So clearly he wasn't a typical "raw af 4th round QB". It's weird how Garrett hasn't been able to sprinkle this magical QB whisperer dust on other "raw" QBs in Dallas. Further evidence that Dak always possessed the talent, NFL scouts and GMs just missed it.

So no, I don't credit Garrett for transforming Dak into one of the league's better young QBs.

Has he helped some? Absolutely. But the process didn't take near as much heavy lifting as you want to make it out to be.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Submitting to owner interference is a qualification of every head coach who walks into this building.

Even Parcells had to have a meeting on the tarmac to go over ground rules before taking the job. And there's only one Parcells.

Really?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

How do they do that? They pick a playbook and let their OC's run it? Details, please.

Because I call bullshit that Garrett isn't as involved as they are.

In fact, we know, and spent time bemoaning en masse on this board before Week 1, how Moore was "still calling Garrett's plays."

And out of the other side of everyone's hypocritical mouth on this issue, we had to hear unendingly about how Garrett's offense was the real reason Linehan couldn't produce.

Well, wait, is it Garrett's offense or isn't it?

Um, I don't think anyone thought Linehan was a good offensive coordinator being held back by Garrett. The truth is Linehan ran things when he came in. Moore runs things now. Garrett keeps his hands clean of everything because he either doesn't want to be liable if it fails or is incapable of being successful at either. Either way Garrett isn't a good offensive mind and he isn't a good defensive mind. Jay Gruden has been known for his offense for a long time. I'm not sure why you suddenly think guys like Gruden and Arians don't have systems they run. They absolutely do.

Garrett might have a system he runs but that shit was scrapped a long time ago because it was unsuccessful. He was essentially kept around because Jerry thought he could train him. There is no more obvious tell about the offense than by looking at how drastically different it looks now from Linehan and even before Linehan. This concept that Garrett has some unique playbook that he runs and ties these offensive coordinators to is a farce.

 

[Smitty]

I didn't say he and his coaches "are doing nothing". I said they (specifically Garrett) are very ineffective. There's a difference.

Well I said sarcastically that "Apparently if you're not being a coordinator as a head coach, you're doing nothing."

You bolded that line in your quote and said "I think there's a lot of truth to that." So excuse my confusion.

He's average at best. Definitely not the worst coach in the league but he's middle of the pack at best. Always has been, and probably always will be. Not sure why you've always been so dug in on retaining a mediocre coach.

I more or less agree, though I don't think we need the superlative "at best" in there. He's middle of the pack. In a big group of average head coaches.

I remain "dug in" because they've made it to the Divisional Round 3 times in the last 5 years and it looks like they are very well on their way again this year. There is a baby that could get thrown out with the bathwater here.

I get it that the natives are restless because he hasn't won the big one, or even gotten to a Championship game, but my frustration stems from the lack of acknowledgement that he offers anything. He does. He's been the head coach over a period of time that started out relatively slow (the source of a large part of the frustration with him, unarguably; the feeling that he should have been fired after the first three 8-8's, but he wasn't, so tough shit), but has since culminated in a run, which looks like it is continuing, that surpasses anything we've had since Jimmy was here.

Not that I'm saying he deserves all the credit for this. But he's the captain of the ship. You can't separate him from it.

I also get frustrated because of all the literal idiocy found in the hot takes about him: He's an idiot, he doesn't know how to call an offense, he doesn't know how to run a team, he doesn't know X, Y, Z.

The hyperbole undermines the point. A realistic take (he hasn't been good enough) would get very little objection. Instead, we have to create fictional narratives because that's the only way to win the argument.

As far as Dak's development, I give more credit to Romo, and Wade Wilson than Garrett.

Well first let us clarify: I'm not saying Garrett himself tutelaged Prescott an inordinant amount. Of course the starting QB (who became the backup QB) and the QB coach were involved. But yet again, then that means that Wilson and Linehan were doing the coaching, and they did a good job. Furthermore, it's never the sole job of the HC to be the hands-on primary coach for the developmental QB, so this isn't a strike on Garrett.

I'm merely pointing out that you said you don't think Garrett's doing anything, but that's demonstrated by his assistants never getting promoted (implying they aren't doing anything either). But someone was coaching Prescott, and well.

And frankly developing a QB, which is done by the QB coach or assistant staff, trickles up to the head coach, as it did with Parcells and Romo. Payton and Lee were coaching Romo. But Romo remains a Parcells guy, and Prescott is a Garrett guy.

To sum this all up, the team has been pretty damn well coached for the past half decade, actually. And that trickles down from Garrett. Absent serious injury and unfair suspension, they are probably 5-for-5 in playoff appearances.

Plus the further along we go down the road, the clearer it's becoming that NFL teams completely whiffed on their assessment of Dak Prescott leading up to the 2016 draft. Just like they've done several times before: Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Romo, Hasselback, etc.

Well there is simply no doubt that the talent evaluators whiffed on Prescott; the Cowboys did too or they would have taken him fourth overall. But that's besides the point.

He did not display in college skills that merited going fourth overall, because they were not refined and shown in college. Someone brought it out of him - that's good coaching. Brady and Wilson undoubtedly also received excellent coaching to develop them.

Consider this. Dak immediately played at a high level during practices and training camp in 2016.

That is false. Dak was a horrific practice player in early 2016.

But even if your point was true, it's contradicted by the fact that you just said you give Romo and Wilson credit for developing him.

Prescott did not walk into Dallas ready-made to be a high end QB. He was thrust into the spotlight and it was quickly found that he was way, WAY better than anyone had scouted him, but he was also protected. And he has grown leaps and bounds in his abilities since 2016. Gosh, the past 10-11 regular season games should be screaming to you that he's come a long, long way.

His mechanics, his reads, his confidence, all look entirely different than it used to. That's not just playcalling.

It's weird how Garrett hasn't been able to sprinkle this magical QB whisperer dust on other "raw" QBs in Dallas.

No, that's not weird at all. Has Pete Carroll found another Russell Wilson? No.

It's rare to find a diamond in the rough. But that doesn't mean they didn't need coaching. Of course they did. And we've personally witnessed Dak's growth over the last 4 years.

Has he helped some? Absolutely. But the process didn't take near as much heavy lifting as you want to make it out to be.

Uh, well, then thank you for ceding my point.

I'm not arguing that Garrett took a QB who otherwise would have been Stephen McGee and turned him into a Pro Bowler.

I'm saying, simply, that no matter how much talent was bubbling unnoticed under the surface, a guy who is a fourth rounder simply has not unleashed his potential in college, and he's not NFL-ready with no coaching. The staff in 2016 -- and granted, it was more hands-on Wilson and Linehan -- did an excellent job coaching Prescott.

And it looks like, as we start 2019, that they've cleared the next hurdle by getting him Kitna and Moore as the voices in his ear now.

And yeah, that direction, even if not the hands-on instruction, comes from the HC.

 

[Smitty]

Garrett keeps his hands clean of everything because he either doesn't want to be liable if it fails or is incapable of being successful at either.

This is neither true nor what everyone was saying about a month ago as to why they were worried about Moore succeeding ("It's still Garrett's offense.")

My how the tune changes to fit the pre-existing narrative.

Either way Garrett isn't a good offensive mind and he isn't a good defensive mind.

He doesn't have an X's and O's grasp you'd put on par with higher end coordinators.

But as a walk around head coach, he doesn't need to, nor is his "mind" of either the offense or defense so bad that he'd compare disfavorably to run of the mill coordinators.

Jay Gruden has been known for his offense for a long time.

He's been known for his shitty offense from the second he got to Washington.

Good example to lean on. Gruden is way better than Garrett, dood. I'd much rather have him.

Durrp.

I'm not sure why you suddenly think guys like Gruden and Arians don't have systems they run. They absolutely do.

Where did I say they don't have systems? Of course they do.

But these are walk around coaches with higher profile coordinators who defer to their coordinators like Garrett does.... and to much worse results overall I might add.

Garrett might have a system he runs

He does. And Moore is running it, albeit with updated and modernized concepts like featuring playaction and more pre-snap motion. And Moore is calling the plays, like many other walk-around head coaches allow their coordinators to do. This doesn't mean those head coaches are "doing nothing," or "don't have a system."

Why didn't Garrett employ more of this before? I can't answer.

But it's not because he's dumb or unable to grasp the concept of fucking playaction, or it doesn't fit his system, or he doesn't have it in his system.

But Moore is still calling Garrett's plays from Garrett's playbook. This is a fact. There are direct quotes from the players about this.

but that shit was scrapped a long time ago

False. They are still running it now.

 

[1bigfan13]

Well I said sarcastically that "Apparently if you're not being a coordinator as a head coach, you're doing nothing."

You bolded that line in your quote and said "I think there's a lot of truth to that." So excuse my confusion.



I more or less agree, though I don't think we need the superlative "at best" in there. He's middle of the pack. In a big group of average head coaches.

I remain "dug in" because they've made it to the Divisional Round 3 times in the last 5 years and it looks like they are very well on their way again this year. There is a baby that could get thrown out with the bathwater here.

I get it that the natives are restless because he hasn't won the big one, or even gotten to a Championship game, but my frustration stems from the lack of acknowledgement that he offers anything. He does. He's been the head coach over a period of time that started out relatively slow (the source of a large part of the frustration with him, unarguably; the feeling that he should have been fired after the first three 8-8's, but he wasn't, so tough shit), but has since culminated in a run, which looks like it is continuing, that surpasses anything we've had since Jimmy was here.

Not that I'm saying he deserves all the credit for this. But he's the captain of the ship. You can't separate him from it.

I also get frustrated because of all the literal idiocy found in the hot takes about him: He's an idiot, he doesn't know how to call an offense, he doesn't know how to run a team, he doesn't know X, Y, Z.

The hyperbole undermines the point. A realistic take (he hasn't been good enough) would get very little objection. Instead, we have to create fictional narratives because that's the only way to win the argument.



Well first let us clarify: I'm not saying Garrett himself tutelaged Prescott an inordinant amount. Of course the starting QB (who became the backup QB) and the QB coach were involved. But yet again, then that means that Wilson and Linehan were doing the coaching, and they did a good job. Furthermore, it's never the sole job of the HC to be the hands-on primary coach for the developmental QB, so this isn't a strike on Garrett.

I'm merely pointing out that you said you don't think Garrett's doing anything, but that's demonstrated by his assistants never getting promoted (implying they aren't doing anything either). But someone was coaching Prescott, and well.

And frankly developing a QB, which is done by the QB coach or assistant staff, trickles up to the head coach, as it did with Parcells and Romo. Payton and Lee were coaching Romo. But Romo remains a Parcells guy, and Prescott is a Garrett guy.

To sum this all up, the team has been pretty damn well coached for the past half decade, actually. And that trickles down from Garrett. Absent serious injury and unfair suspension, they are probably 5-for-5 in playoff appearances.



Well there is simply no doubt that the talent evaluators whiffed on Prescott; the Cowboys did too or they would have taken him fourth overall. But that's besides the point.

He did not display in college skills that merited going fourth overall, because they were not refined and shown in college. Someone brought it out of him - that's good coaching. Brady and Wilson undoubtedly also received excellent coaching to develop them.



That is false. Dak was a horrific practice player in early 2016.

But even if your point was true, it's contradicted by the fact that you just said you give Romo and Wilson credit for developing him.

Prescott did not walk into Dallas ready-made to be a high end QB. He was thrust into the spotlight and it was quickly found that he was way, WAY better than anyone had scouted him, but he was also protected. And he has grown leaps and bounds in his abilities since 2016. Gosh, the past 10-11 regular season games should be screaming to you that he's come a long, long way.

His mechanics, his reads, his confidence, all look entirely different than it used to. That's not just playcalling.



No, that's not weird at all. Has Pete Carroll found another Russell Wilson? No.

It's rare to find a diamond in the rough. But that doesn't mean they didn't need coaching. Of course they did. And we've personally witnessed Dak's growth over the last 4 years.



Uh, well, then thank you for ceding my point.

I'm not arguing that Garrett took a QB who otherwise would have been Stephen McGee and turned him into a Pro Bowler.

I'm saying, simply, that no matter how much talent was bubbling unnoticed under the surface, a guy who is a fourth rounder simply has not unleashed his potential in college, and he's not NFL-ready with no coaching. The staff in 2016 -- and granted, it was more hands-on Wilson and Linehan -- did an excellent job coaching Prescott.

And it looks like, as we start 2019, that they've cleared the next hurdle by getting him Kitna and Moore as the voices in his ear now.

And yeah, that direction, even if not the hands-on instruction, comes from the HC.

Stop, stop! You win.

I'm not getting into a long, 5 page argument with you over this.

I yield.