The Coronavirus Thread...

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
So you feel that there should be some level of government but they shouldn't have any authority to force anyone to comply with their recommendations?
I don't consider the government making suggestions as being interference. Maybe that's where that's where we are are on different pages. I'm fine with the CDC putting out suggestions on how people can stay safe, and at that point it is up to the individual to be responsible or not. The free market will work this out. For example Ford and Chevy are now making ventilators. The free market is undefeated. Let it work.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
and to give you an idea of how I tend to think, I was interviewed years ago for a news channel in Roswell, New Mexico and they were asking folks what they thought about the new law making it illegal for people to ride in the back of a pick-up truck

When asked, I said, thats ridiculous, if people want to take that risk, its their choice, we dont need the nanny state intervening in everything in a futile effort to remove all risk from society

When they stopped rolling, we chatted with the reporter for a bit and my buddy asked her what the chances were of us making it on TV and she looked at me and said "Oh, you're definitely getting on TV!"

I laughed and asked why and she said "you're the first person we've interviewed all day that opposed the new law"

Then she said she needed more opposing views so she asked my buddy who agreed with the law to reinterview stating he opposed the law, which he agreed to do. We happen to be driving a pick up truck so she filmed us driving away while sitting in the pick up bed.

The beginnings of fake news?

I still feel the same way & I felt the same way when seat belts became a requirement. But upon reflection, I never wore a seat belt prior to the new law and now I couldn't imagine not doing it.

Am I better off for being persuaded by this law?

Was the law necessary?

Was the government over-reaching?

I'm not so sure what my answer is because I agree that I (and everyone should) wear a seat belt but I still dont like the government telling me I have to or be subjected to a fine
I think seat belt laws are ridiculous, but should you wear one? Absolutely.
 

yimyammer

shitless classpainter
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
3,271
I don't consider the government making suggestions as being interference. Maybe that's where that's where we are are on different pages. I'm fine with the CDC putting out suggestions on how people can stay safe, and at that point it is up to the individual to be responsible or not. The free market will work this out. For example Ford and Chevy are now making ventilators. The free market is undefeated. Let it work.
Brother, I don't know exactly where I am at on this, I tend to lean your direction but then I ponder scenarios like smoking which I despise.

Now if people want to smoke, that's their business and choice but when that person is no longer in the confides of his own home or wide open outdoor space but in a restaurant, bar, etc, then I dont think he or she should be allowed to pollute the air for all and it only takes one friggin' smoker to do that so I like the no smoking rules.

Having said that I am biased and by supporting these laws I guess I'm supporting giving up civil liberties but because I dont smoke, I'm not sweating it. Admittedly, that doesnt make my stance right, it actually opens the door for someone else to ban something I like that they dont care about. That was done with online poker and it pisses me off

So maybe the law should be killed and each business decide what they will allow and then I as a customer won't patronize places that allow smoking. Something does feel right about this.

I am a builder and in Dallas, you have to have 1 parking place for every 100SF of restaurant space you construct. I think its a bullshit requirement because it is inherently in a restaurants best interest to supply parking for its customers/employees. If they don't, they risk losing customers, income and perhaps eventual failure but thats their choice and responsibility not something the government needs to mandate. Like water, I believe these business will "seek their own level". Some will fail because they didn't provide adequate parking, others will succeed because they overcome whatever parking shortages they may have had or simply didn't have to waste money at the start of their concept on parking they didn't need.

laissez faire, I REALLY like it
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
Brother, I don't know exactly where I am at on this, I tend to lean your direction but then I ponder scenarios like smoking which I despise.

Now if people want to smoke, that's their business and choice but when that person is no longer in the confides of his own home or wide open outdoor space but in a restaurant, bar, etc, then I dont think he or she should be allowed to pollute the air for all and it only takes one friggin' smoker to do that so I like the no smoking rules.

Having said that I am biased and by supporting these laws I guess I'm supporting giving up civil liberties but because I dont smoke, I'm not sweating it. Admittedly, that doesnt make my stance right, it actually opens the door for someone else to ban something I like that they dont care about. That was done with online poker and it pisses me off

So maybe the law should be killed and each business decide what they will allow and then I as a customer won't patronize places that allow smoking. Something does feel right about this.

I am a builder and in Dallas, you have to have 1 parking place for every 100SF of restaurant space you construct. I think its a bullshit requirement because it is inherently in a restaurants best interest to supply parking for its customers/employees. If they don't, they risk losing customers, income and perhaps eventual failure but thats their choice and responsibility not something the government needs to mandate. Like water, I believe these business will "seek their own level". Some will fail because they didn't provide adequate parking, others will succeed because they overcome whatever parking shortages they may have had or simply didn't have to waste money at the start of their concept on parking they didn't need.

laissez faire, I REALLY like it
But, see, the smoking thing is the perfect example of how the free market worked itself out. Way before there were laws against smoking in establishments the market had already started trending that way. It started with non-smoking sections and then morphed into very very few establishments allowing it inside. That's the free market working out an issue. We didn't need the government overlords stepping in to "take care of us". Again, we are a resilient and resourceful people for the most part. And, we are a much better people when the government stays the hell out of the way.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
I also think helmet laws for motorcyclists are ridiculous. You are not putting anyone else in harm's way. Should you wear one? Hell yeah. But, should it be mandated? Hell no.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
I think some people have forgotten (not you yimyammer) what the intention our forefathers had when they wrote the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The federal government's job is to protect us from foreign threats, secure our liberties and to enforce the constitution at the highest level. They would be rolling over in their graves if they saw the role of the federal government today.
 

yimyammer

shitless classpainter
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
3,271
But, see, the smoking thing is the perfect example of how the free market worked itself out. Way before there were laws against smoking in establishments the market had already started trending that way. It started with non-smoking sections and then morphed into very very few establishments allowing it inside. That's the free market working out an issue. We didn't need the government overlords stepping in to "take care of us". Again, we are a resilient and resourceful people for the most part. And, we are a much better people when the government stays the hell out of the way.

its a good point but where I pause in the case of the virus is no one is dying fast from second hand smoke. (perhaps long term effect).

We have a virus that spreads rapidly and easily from folks that are knowingly or unknowingly infected plus dumb asses licking toilet seats, products in super markets, partying on beaches, etc, etc who may spread the virus to others who are trying to avoid getting it and/or spreading to others.

IIYC, you basically want the CDC or whomever to give good recommendations and then let everyone do whatever they want and let the chips fall where they may, sound about right? (and I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm merely trying to envision the scenario you'd like to see play out)
 

yimyammer

shitless classpainter
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
3,271
I also think helmet laws for motorcyclists are ridiculous. You are not putting anyone else in harm's way. Should you wear one? Hell yeah. But, should it be mandated? Hell no.
I still dont wear a helmet while riding my bicycle, gamble, gamble.........

but I did order this about a year ago on an Indigogo campaign (who knows if I'll ever get it though)

 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
IIYC, you basically want the CDC or whomever to give good recommendations and then let everyone do whatever they want and let the chips fall where they may, sound about right?
That is exactly what I'm saying.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
53,184
not sure what tracking these stats accomplishes but here they are nonetheless



the fatality rate has increased substantially over the last week
Not sure either but it's interesting to me anyway. I wonder why the death rate looks a little high. I'm guessing it's because the mild cases aren't getting tested. Or maybe we are doing a better job of testing the dead at this point.
 

yimyammer

shitless classpainter
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
3,271
Great podcast, fascinating subjects being discussed here and makes me grateful I didn't have to live in those times, what we're going through now would be horrific in the Victorian era. Now we have internet, food delivery services, endless entertainment, comfortable houses, running water, etc, etc. People will lose appreciation for these things rapidly as this thing continues but if we have to go through this, imho, we're lucky to be doing it at this time in history


here's a teaser, the graham cracker was invented to stop you from masterbating
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
Should be interesting to see how that works out for them.
My guess is they will have a spike in cases and then it will level off as people start self-policing themselves out of fear. Back to the smoking topic, there is a reason smoking is now demonized. The social construct has made it that way. People/society in this country has made it into a bad thing so they socially corrected the problem. People are already demonizing people for going out and they should. The social construct will correct the problem by social shaming just like it did with smoking.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
53,184
My guess is they will have a spike in cases and then it will level off as people start self-policing themselves out of fear. Back to the smoking topic, there is a reason smoking is now demonized. The social construct has made it that way. People/society in this country has made it into a bad thing so they socially corrected the problem. People are already demonizing people for going out and they should. The social construct will correct the problem by social shaming just like it did with smoking.
I agree, I tend to think everything will work out just fine for them.
 

NoDak

Hotlinking' sonofabitch
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
23,303
Social shaming or whatever, had zero to do with why I chose to quit smoking. I didn't give a damn what people thought of me for smoking.

I quit because I came to the realization that I wanted to be there when my kids grew up and started having kids of their own.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,324
Social shaming or whatever, had zero to do with why I chose to quit smoking. I didn't give a damn what people thought of me for smoking.

I quit because I came to the realization that I wanted to be there when my kids grew up and started having kids of their own.
For a lot of people that’s the case, but to see it as minimized as it is today took social shaming or whatever you want to call it. The pressure from your fellow citizens to make restaurants smoke-free, etc.
 

yimyammer

shitless classpainter
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
3,271
amazing to think there was a time when people debated whether to wash their hands, especially in a medical environment

So many things we take for granted:

There was a time in the not-too-distant past when hand-washing, even for doctors, wasn't considered part of basic hygiene. That is, until one man sounded the alarm.

You have to hand it to Ignaz Semmelweis, the 19th-century Hungarian doctor. For it was Semmelweis who determined, after studying maternity ward deaths, that it was hand-washing by doctors that could make all the difference between life and death.

ignaz-semmelweis-a-promo.jpg


Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis (1818-1865), of Hungary, proposed health care workers wash their hands with an antiseptic to reduce infections - an idea antithetical to medical thinking of the day.

Far from welcoming his insight, though, fellow doctors rejected it ... and Semmelweis went on to die in an insane asylum, of sepsis, the very thing he'd devoted himself to fighting.

Later generations came to recognize the truth of his discovery, and of course the need for thorough hand-washing has never been more important than now.
linky
 
Top Bottom