The Colin Kaepernick Thread...

[peplaw06]

I don't know where you work but I have been well aware at every job I've ever had that if I say something in public my employer disagrees with strongly enough, I would be fired. That unspoken danger seems like the epitome of prior restraint to me.

That's fear of repercussions, not prior restraint. You don't have a list in your employee handbook of things you can't say.

 

[Smitty]

That's fear of repercussions, not prior restraint. You don't have a list in your employee handbook of things you can't say.

Pretty thin line when you know well and good what things you can say and what things you can't.

 

[bbgun]

I asked bbgun this, but I'll ask you too. Are you saying that you are only offended with this protest because they happen to be employees? If it was just random joe fan in the stands in front of you who stayed seated while the anthem was played, would you still be offended? Of course you would... The employee distinction is just a pretext. The underlying sentiment is you don't want people to say something that hurts your feelings.

I'd be annoyed by the fan but the fan isn't asking for my money. The fan's actions aren't being endorsed by management. The fan isn't asking for tax breaks for stadiums. The fan isn't shoving touchy feely Pinktober down my throat. The NFL is. There's freedom of left-wing expression and that's it.

 

[peplaw06]

Pretty thin line when you know well and good what things you can say and what things you can't.

You have a certain decorum... like most employees. There are things that you wouldn't say, because you want to keep your job.

That's totally different from an employer saying, "hey employees, here are things that you absolutely cannot say, and if you do, you are fired." And if those things included statements that had some kind of political element to them?? Geez, if a political party got a hold of that and they disagreed with the forbidden statements, there would be riots in the streets.

Luckily we don't have that environment. If it were commonly accepted though that you couldn't contribute to the Republican Party if you worked for Google, then the GOP would be clamoring for the government to step in and do something. It's not a stretch at all to say if we allow one, the other could follow.

 

[peplaw06]

I'd be annoyed by the fan

Exactly. It's not about whether the person is an employee or not.

but the fan isn't asking for my money. The fan's actions aren't being endorsed by management. The fan isn't asking for tax breaks for stadiums. The fan isn't shoving touchy feely Pinktober down my throat. The NFL is. There's freedom of left-wing expression and that's it.

You're only getting these things shoved down your throat because you've got your mouth open.

I agree they shouldn't be getting tax breaks for stadiums though... government shouldn't have anything to do with that.

 

[fortsbest]

Politics running amok?

The NFL didn't ask for this. The president put them all on blast and they responded. And by taking a knee or staying in the locker room, it's now politics run amok? Drama queen much?

That's BS. The NFL asked for this when they allowed Kaep to start this crap last year. If they'd have told that bench sitter that that was not the place for protests, this would have never gotten to this point. Instead, they allowed it to take flight, and a few more saw it was ok and started doing it, and pretty soon it got to the point they couldn't say anything about it without causing more problems. Then, to make it worse, when called out about it by the president (yes, he should have more presidential about the way he did it) they were put in defense and rebut mode. Yes they did ask for it by not enforcing the same standards they had in other instances of individual or group expression.

Its not ridiculous... it just makes you uncomfortable to think about it that way. Maybe you need to be reminded that the Supreme Court has had to rule that burning the flag is protected speech. So somewhere a group of people enacted a law that burning the flag was a crime. So, no, it's not a stretch to think that potentially there could be a law passed saying how you had to stand when the anthem is played, and that it would be generally accepted?
I asked bbgun this, but I'll ask you too. Are you saying that you are only offended with this protest because they happen to be employees? If it was just random joe fan in the stands in front of you who stayed seated while the anthem was played, would you still be offended? Of course you would... The employee distinction is just a pretext. The underlying sentiment is you don't want people to say something that hurts your feelings.

No, I am offended by the protest itself and the way it's being carried out because 1. The original protest is based on lies, and 2. People who just want football are being forced to watch because of what Schmitty described. If the wanted to burn flags on their own time or have some sort of march or protest on their own time not on game time, God bless them. It woudl be news because you know the unbiased news networks would make it that, but it wouldn't be the captive audience that was talked about before.

 

[fortsbest]

You have a certain decorum... like most employees. There are things that you wouldn't say, because you want to keep your job.

That's totally different from an employer saying, "hey employees, here are things that you absolutely cannot say, and if you do, you are fired." And if those things included statements that had some kind of political element to them?? Geez, if a political party got a hold of that and they disagreed with the forbidden statements, there would be riots in the streets.

Luckily we don't have that environment. If it were commonly accepted though that you couldn't contribute to the Republican Party if you worked for Google, then the GOP would be clamoring for the government to step in and do something. It's not a stretch at all to say if we allow one, the other could follow.

Isn't that exactly what GOOGLE did with the guy that got fired for his personal writing thing?

 

[Smitty]

Isn't that exactly what GOOGLE did with the guy that got fired for his personal writing thing?

I guess cause they didn't tell him before hand that he wasn't allowed to say it, it's different.

Just strongly implied it.

 

[bbgun]

You're only getting these things shoved down your throat because you've got your mouth open.

I agree they shouldn't be getting tax breaks for stadiums though... government shouldn't have anything to do with that.

Um, what choice do we have? Are the Cowboys fielding two teams or something? We are a captive audience and the NFL knows it.

 

[fortsbest]

No, it's good.

I'm glad you chimed in and it was really more of a question to those who are strongly opposed to this action. I just didn't wanna tag a whole bunch of people individually, so I went with the 2 members who had most recently commented on it in the thread.

And I've had issues with people of my own race protesting certain things, so I completely understand what you mean.

My parents and myself have largely always been Republican.

I watched my dad go from having nothing when he came into this country into a successful middle-class American. My dad takes pride in being an American citizen and he's the last person who wants to hear excuses of how one cannot make it in this country because you don't have the resources to succeed.

So when I see Latin Americans holding rallies at city halls crying about how they HAVE to be given this or that, it bothers me. All that you deserve is to be treated fairly, nothing more. It irritates the shit out of me when people ask to have things done here like they are in their countries.

"Hey, you can't do that because it offends us!"



If you don't like that you can't celebrate Cinco De Mayo, then go to Mexico.

Having said that, I think lots of whites confuse this with minorities, especially those from the black community, being treated unfairly and unjustly and having to go the extra mile just to have a concern addressed or heard that the average white person never has to worry about. Just because these groups are known to bitch and moan about faux disrespect doesn't mean that all of our concerns of social inequality aren't genuine.

This protest to me is a good example. I totally understand why you or someone else would dislike seeing them kneel for the anthem, but I also understand that they can't just hold a community gathering because that gets them nowhere.

They have to put it in people's faces and make them uncomfortable in order to have their voices heard sometimes.

That's not always true today though Schmitty. If you are a minority in America today, you can go to the media with some sort of grievance and be heard easier than if you were white. It's just the nature of things today. I would hate the kneeling thing no matter who was doing it and for whatever reason. 1. because I think it's wrong, and 2. for the reasons you mentioned earlier about forced participation.
But lastly, I don't like it because it's a bunch of faux outraged individuals looking to make a stand on something based on a lie and it's ruining the vibe. Show some legit motivation to better a problem like I mentioned before and maybe I'd take them more seriously. Some may have, but most have not.

 

[DLK150]

Flashback to last year when the NFL banned Dallas from wearing little stickers on their helmets in support of law enforcement. Hypocrite much?

Oh wait, it violates uniform policy or something, right?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/13/nfls-ban-dallas-cowboys-pro-cop-helmet-decals-rank/

 

[peplaw06]

That's BS. The NFL asked for this when they allowed Kaep to start this crap last year. If they'd have told that bench sitter that that was not the place for protests, this would have never gotten to this point. Instead, they allowed it to take flight, and a few more saw it was ok and started doing it, and pretty soon it got to the point they couldn't say anything about it without causing more problems. Then, to make it worse, when called out about it by the president (yes, he should have more presidential about the way he did it) they were put in defense and rebut mode. Yes they did ask for it by not enforcing the same standards they had in other instances of individual or group expression.

So cause the NFL allows one player to protest something specific, they deserve being called sons of bitches? The politics runs amok cause you fuckin tribal momos can't see anything other than Republican vs. Democrat and your glasses tint what is really happening here.

No, I am offended by the protest itself and the way it's being carried out because 1. The original protest is based on lies, and 2. People who just want football are being forced to watch because of what Schmitty described. If the wanted to burn flags on their own time or have some sort of march or protest on their own time not on game time, God bless them. It woudl be news because you know the unbiased news networks would make it that, but it wouldn't be the captive audience that was talked about before.

Well then shit... be offended. And y'all want to talk about snowflakes. Oh wow, someone took a knee. ZOMG THAY DID IT WHILE I WUZ TRYIN TO WACH FOOTBALLZ!!

No one's forcing you to watch anything, and you're not a captive audience. Stop using trigger words to try to make your plight look more serious than it is. If it upsets you so much, turn off the TV. There, captive audience problem solved.

 

[peplaw06]

Isn't that exactly what GOOGLE did with the guy that got fired for his personal writing thing?

Do you think it was right that happened?

 

[peplaw06]

I guess cause they didn't tell him before hand that he wasn't allowed to say it, it's different.

Just strongly implied it.

You took Con Law right? What does prior restraint mean to you?

Still though... I don't think it's right that Google fired someone for speech (I don't recall the specifics of that story). Even if it wasn't an outright prior restraint, the fact that people have to be concerned about what they say and if it will cost them their jobs, is a problem. The Constitution protects against government restraint of speech... but the spirit behind the first amendment should be recognized in every day situations IMO.

If you think you're gonna "get me" when employers do fire people for speech, like it tears down my point... sorry to disappoint you, but that's exactly the point I'm making. Citizens shouldn't have to be fearful of losing their jobs for speech.

If you think it was wrong for Google to fire someone for writing their personal beliefs, then how can you possibly support prior restraints on certain kinds of speech?

 

[fortsbest]

So cause the NFL allows one player to protest something specific, they deserve being called sons of bitches? The politics runs amok cause you fuckin tribal momos can't see anything other than Republican vs. Democrat and your glasses tint what is really happening here.

First of all Dickweed, I didn't say anything about them being called SOBs. That was wholly inappropriate. Trump could have voiced what many feel without the vulgarity. But, the NFL has been selective about what protests or tributes they choose to allow and their rulebook specifically prohibits using the National Anthem as a protest tool. It lays out exactly how teams should behave and show respect. Had they only enforced it, none of what is going on now would have happened. This has nothing to do with R vs D so quit being a douche. Or are you saying just because you're doing this you are a Democrat, which would make sense.

As for the rest, this entire board is about being offended or bantering about a cause. How about you do it without going to the left tactic of calling names when you run out of righteous stuff to say.

 

[fortsbest]

Do you think it was right that happened?

If I understand right, he didn't do it at work. If he didn't, they shouldn't have fired him. If he did, was anything he said offensive or wrong? Then they may have had cause.

 

[peplaw06]

Um, what choice do we have? Are the Cowboys fielding two teams or something? We are a captive audience and the NFL knows it.

I have told you a number of times what choice you have... you just don't want to hear it.

How can we be a captive audience when 90% of us have 200+ TV channels, Netflix, Hulu, Roku, yada yada? Stop with the over dramatizing everything.

 

[peplaw06]

First of all Dickweed, I didn't say anything about them being called SOBs. That was wholly inappropriate. Trump could have voiced what many feel without the vulgarity.

I don't care if you said it or not. I said the league didn't ask for this... meaning Trump's comments, which is specifically what yesterday's protests were about. Just cause you didn't say it doesn't mean it's not a part of the conversation.

But, the NFL has been selective about what protests or tributes they choose to allow and their rulebook specifically prohibits using the National Anthem as a protest tool. It lays out exactly how teams should behave and show respect. Had they only enforced it, none of what is going on now would have happened. This has nothing to do with R vs D so quit being a douche.

Please... there's no doubt you have brought your personal political bent into your opinion on this issue. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

Or are you saying just because you're doing this you are a Democrat, which would make sense.

So predictable... when someone disagrees with you, they're a member of the political party you don't like, and you use it as an insult.

As for the rest, this entire board is about being offended or bantering about a cause. How about you do it without going to the left tactic of calling names when you run out of righteous stuff to say.

OHhhhh, this entire board is about being offended? Sorry I must have missed that in the description... Guess I just will have to disagree.

Side note: have you run out of righteous stuff to say? Or are you just co-opting the "left tactic?"

For the record, I'm not Democrat. As if that matters to you. I suspect you'll still be convinced that I am, since I disagree with you and all.

 

[peplaw06]

If I understand right, he didn't do it at work. If he didn't, they shouldn't have fired him. If he did, was anything he said offensive or wrong? Then they may have had cause.

Why does where he did it matter at all? And who defines what is offensive or wrong?

 

[peplaw06]

By the way, the chatter is the Cowboys will be making some kind of statement during pre-game tonight.

Fair warning, if you want to avoid any additional suffering.