Sturm: NFL 100 - At No. 29, Emmitt Smith did what he did for longer and better than anyone

[data]

Yeah, me neither. In fact, I am amusing myself that I gave as much of a shit about it at the time that I did.

I remember we all got hyped ( at the Zone or tc.net ) when Emmitt the Cardinal got ROYYYYyYyY!!!11!1!1 with a dislocated shoulder

Bunch of Zoners typing “THOUGHT DIAMONDS COULDNT BE CRUSHED!!!”

 

[Sheik]

I remember we all got hyped ( at the Zone or tc.net ) when Emmitt the Cardinal got ROYYYYyYyY!!!11!1!1 with a dislocated shoulder

Bunch of Zoners typing “THOUGHT DIAMONDS COULDNT BE CRUSHED!!!”

Roy broke his shoulder blade if I recall correctly.

 

[bbgun]

Roy broke his shoulder blade if I recall correctly.

no, Emmitt got hurt on that play

 

[Sheik]

no, Emmitt got hurt on that play

That’s what I said.

Roy broke Emmitt’s shoulder blade.

 

[bbgun]

That’s what I said.

Roy broke Emmitt’s shoulder blade.

your sentence was ambiguous. be clearer!

 

[data]

Sanders on pretty bad Detroit teams save one season, Smith on great to good for the same chunk of their careers.

Pretty bad save one season? I’m assuming you’re talking about 1991.

From 93-97, they made playoffs four out of five seasons and beat us straight-up in 1994 in Irving on MNF

Lions werent a dynasty by any means, but they weren’t the 90s Bungals. Hell, Barry’s Lions were better than Stafford and Megatron’s Lions.

 

[Sheik]

your sentence was ambiguous. be clearer!

You’re correct. It could have been interpreted either way.

 

[Smitty]

Not taking away from Emmitt at all but I think Barry doesn't get enough credit. Barry didn't dance in college where he played in an extremely conventional pro style offense with a good OL. He did all that juking in the pros because he didn't have very good blocking too much of the time.

And Herschel was very straight line but so was Eric Dickerson, another all-time great. Herschel's real prime was wasted in the USFL where got tons of carries in 18 game seasons. He'd have done just fine behind this OL.

I agree, I think Barry gets crapped on because deep down we know Emmitt had the better OL and that does matter.

To what degree is debatable.

 

[Cotton]

I agree, I think Barry gets crapped on because deep down we know Emmitt had the better OL and that does matter.

To what degree is debatable.

I will still go back to Geng's point. I truly believe that Emmitt would have done the same with the Lions OL, but I don't think Barry would have done the same as Emmitt with ours. Emmitt was a freak. So was Barry, but he didn't have the intangibles Emmitt did.

 

[Smitty]

I will still go back to Geng's point. I truly believe that Emmitt would have done the same with the Lions OL, but I don't think Barry would have done the same as Emmitt with ours. Emmitt was a freak. So was Barry, but he didn't have the intangibles Emmitt did.

I definitely do not agree. Not saying that Emmitt wouldn’t have been great and the Detroit OL wasn’t terrible - it had two very good players on it at various times - but I will never agree that the Cowboys OL of the 90s wasn’t every bit as elite as it’s QB, RB and WR. That absolutely factors into production. It just does, not sure there’s any other way to put it.

 

[boozeman]

I will still go back to Geng's point. I truly believe that Emmitt would have done the same with the Lions OL, but I don't think Barry would have done the same as Emmitt with ours.

I don't.

Smith was particularly deadly with interior runs. The Lions didn't have a complete dogshit OL with guys like Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover, but the overall execution was not great. Sanders still ran for 1600+ yards behind an at best mediocre line. Not sure how his running style would have fit for how we played football, so I am not going to even try to project that behind Dallas' line.

But I am picking a back to be my bell cow for a game, it isn't Sanders.

 

[Cotton]

I definitely do not agree. Not saying that Emmitt wouldn’t have been great and the Detroit OL wasn’t terrible - it had two very good players on it at various times - but I will never agree that the Cowboys OL of the 90s wasn’t every bit as elite as it’s QB, RB and WR. That absolutely factors into production. It just does, not sure there’s any other way to put it.

For sure the OL talent makes a difference. I don't agree there was a contiguous OL wall for us. We had holes. Emmitt made up for those that I don't think Barry could. If you also factor in the Emmitt's durability, length of play, and his side to side/explosion/vision, I stand by my position.

 

[Smitty]

I think you are underrating that line a bunch, but your point is well taken.

Case in point is guys like Derrick Lassic and Chris Warren didn't light up the league when they ran behind the same line.

And they were 0-2 without Emmitt in 93, then went I think 12-2 and won the super bowl once he returned.

I think those things are pretty telling for how good Emmitt really was.

Actually I think washed up Chris Warren did have a modicum of success with us, and that was at the tail end of the line being good.

But yeah of course the line wasn’t going to turn a bum like Lassic into an All Pro. But when comparing two all pros in Smith and Sanders I cannot possibly believe that their yardage totals were unaffected by the quality of the blocking in front of them, and Emmitt’s was just better. It defies everything we know about football (that it all starts up front). We knew in the early 2010s that with bums like Phil Costa we were screwed; and we built our 2014-16 contender behind that OL. It mattered to DeMarco Murray who never quite replicated his career high elsewhere. Why wouldn’t it matter for other backs?

 

[Cotton]

I don't.

Smith was particularly deadly with interior runs. The Lions didn't have a complete dogshit OL with guys like Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover, but the overall execution was not great. Sanders still ran for 1600+ yards behind an at best mediocre line. Not sure how his running style would have fit for how we played football, so I am not going to even try to project that behind Dallas' line.

But I am picking a back to be my bell cow for a game, it isn't Sanders.

Like I said, I pick Emmitt as my back all day long.

And, Sanders was an all-timer. I'm not trying to take away from him. He was incredibly talented. Top 3 easy. I'm just saying, if I am being forced to choose a back, Emmitt is my choice, regardless of OL.

 

[bbgun]

No hookers, blow or suspensions. He can go on the banner.

 

[boozeman]

It mattered to DeMarco Murray who never quite replicated his career high elsewhere. Why wouldn’t it matter for other backs?

These kind of GOAT discussions never seem to get that perspective. Great players are often in the best circumstances, at that time.

 

[Genghis Khan]

These kind of GOAT discussions never seem to get that perspective. Great players are often in the best circumstances, at that time.

But that has been my point.

Where is this perspective about any of the other greats?

The 80s 49ers had a great offensive line.

That certainly helped Montana. Playing with Rice helped Montana. Playing with Montana and Young helped Rice.

I never hear these types of arguments with any of the other greats. But you can say the same for literally all of them. Every single one had a tremendous amount of help.

Did playing with Herman Moore and Lomas Brown help Barry Sanders? Of course.

That doesn't make great players any less great because they played alongside other great players. It's literally normal.

I'm tired of hearing it only about Cowboys players.

 

[data]

But that has been my point.

Where is this perspective about any of the other greats?

The 80s 49ers had a great offensive line.

That certainly helped Montana. Playing with Rice helped Montana. Playing with Montana and Young helped Rice.

I never hear these types of arguments with any of the other greats. But you can say the same for literally all of them. Every single one had a tremendous amount of help.

Did playing with Herman Moore and Lomas Brown help Barry Sanders? Of course.

That doesn't make great players any less great because they played alongside other great players. It's literally normal.

I'm tired of hearing it only about Cowboys players.

Jim Brown was a man among boys, they say. Most physically dominant RB of all time, they say.

Nevermind that RBs before and after Jim Brown are also HOfers and the Browns OL was as, if not more, dominant than the Cowboys 90s — two HOFers and others with multiple All-Pros/Pro Bowls. This is never mentioned during Jim Brown highlight reels, but the Cowboys Wall is almost always mentioned.

 

[Simpleton]

You have to pick either Emmitt or Sanders to play a Super Bowl against the 2013 Seahawks with a "Super Bowl-average" OL, not a god damn one of you is picking Sanders.

 

[ZeroClub]

There is no correct answer to the question, in part because people can't agree on the criteria.

For example, if we were to focus on the RBs who were most brilliant during their primes (and disregarded their other years), names like Gail Sayers, Bo Jackson, and Earl Campbell would deserve mention.

John Brockington, a power back, played like the Incredible Hulk for a few years on some crappy Packers teams in the early 1970's. He was remarkable, given how bad the rest of his team was. He deserves to be on somebody's top 25 list (maybe of power backs, along with guys like Christian Okoye).

Anyway, here's Gil Brandt's list:

Gil Brandt's 25 greatest NFL running backs of all time

25. Joe Perry
San Francisco 49ers, 1948-1960 and 1963; Baltimore Colts, 1961-1962

24. Ollie Matson
Chicago Cardinals, 1952-1958; L.A. Rams, 1959-1962; Detroit Lions, 1963; Philadelphia Eagles, 1964-1966

23. Jim Taylor
Green Bay Packers, 1958-1966; New Orleans Saints, 1967

22. Larry Csonka
Miami Dolphins, 1968-1974

21. Marcus Allen
L.A. Raiders, 1982-1992; kansas City Chiefs, 1993-1997

20. Marion Motley
Cleveland Browns, 1946-1953; Pittsburgh Steelers, 1955

19. Terrell Davis
Denver Broncos, 1995-2001

18. John Riggins
N.Y. Jets, 1971-1975; Washington Redskins, 1976-1979, 1981-1986

17. Jerome Bettis
L.A./St. Louis Rams, 1993-1995; Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996-2005

16. Thurman Thomas
Buffalo Bills, 1988-1999; Miami Dolphins, 2000

15. John Henry Johnson
San Francisco 49ers, 1954-1956; Detroit Lions, 1957-1959; Pittsburgh Steelers, 1960-1965; Houston Oilers, 1966

14. Adrian Peterson
Minnesota Vikings, 2007-2016; New Orleans Saints, 2017; Arizona Cardinals 2017

13. Curtis Martin
New England Patriots, 1995-1997; N.Y. Jets 1998-2006

12. Marshall Faulk
Indianapolis Colts, 1994-1998; St. Louis Rams, 1999-2005

11. Emmitt Smith
Dallas Cowboys, 1990-2002; Arizona Cardinals, 2003-2004

10. O.J. Simpson
Buffalo Bills, 1969-1977; San Francisco 49ers, 1978-1979

9. Tony Dorsett
Dallas Cowboys, 1977-1987; Denver Broncos, 1988

8. Earl Campbell
Houston Oilers, New Orleans Saints

7. Barry Sanders
Detroit Lions, 1989-1998

6. Eric Dickerson
L.A. Rams, 1983-1987; Indianapolis Colts , 1987-1991; L.A. Raiders, 1992; Atlanta Falcons, 1993

5. LaDainian Tomlinson
San Diego Chargers, 2001-2009; N.Y. Jets, 2010-2011

4. Bo Jackson
L.A. Raiders, 1987-1990

3. Gale Sayers
Chicago Bears, 1965-1971

2. Walter Payton
Chicago Bears, 1975-1987

1. Jim Brown
Cleveland Browns, 1957-1965