Romo To Spend Manning-Type Time On Game Planning

[Smitty]

Having a decent offensive line makes your job easier.

Having a bad offensive line, when you have a top ten QB, a HOF TE, a solid RB, and a top 5 WR duo, does not make your job impossible.

And the results have been middle of the road... so it's not like he put up no results at all. The results, being average, are reflected from the lessened effectiveness of the skill position players from having that poor OL.

It's no different than the LBs or CBs being less effective if the DL doesn't control the line of scrimmage. It makes every player behind the line's job much harder.

2012 nothwithstanding, this offense's primary issue since Garrett arrived has been scoring, not moving the ball. That remains directly related to the complete inability to run the ball; but more specifically, to run the ball in the redzone and in situations where the defense knows it is coming. The OL simply cannot open holes in those situations.

Whether Garrett is responsible for picking the players who have not been able to get the job done is another issue; but fix the OL (and I don't mean 5 all stars, I mean, give us an OL on par with the Redskins or Giants) and most of the offensive problems we've seen regarding consistency and scoring rankings not matching yardage rankings will disappear.

 

[Genghis Khan]

If you don't know what you want, you can't complain if they don't give it to you. If I was coaching, I know I would identify linemen and lobby to get them. I'd be quicker to identify talent evaluation as the problem if we seemed to have some vision for what kind of lineman we want but we go for heavy or light linemen seemingly at random and there doesn't seem to be any end to that in sight.

Just last year we signed one of each at guard, showing that we have no idea what we want on the OL, and Jason and his brother Judd (director of pro scouting) signed off on it.

That's a very valid criticism.

 

[Genghis Khan]

And the results have been middle of the road... so it's not like he put up no results at all. The results, being average, are reflected from the lessened effectiveness of the skill position players from having that poor OL.

It's no different than the LBs or CBs being less effective if the DL doesn't control the line of scrimmage. It makes every player behind the line's job much harder.

2012 nothwithstanding, this offense's primary issue since Garrett arrived has been scoring, not moving the ball. That remains directly related to the complete inability to run the ball; but more specifically, to run the ball in the redzone and in situations where the defense knows it is coming. The OL simply cannot open holes in those situations.

Whether Garrett is responsible for picking the players who have not been able to get the job done is another issue; but fix the OL (and I don't mean 5 all stars, I mean, give us an OL on par with the Redskins or Giants) and most of the offensive problems we've seen regarding consistency and scoring rankings not matching yardage rankings will disappear.

And why have to results been middle of the road? Because our talent on the field has been able to improvise when the game plan and scheming failed week after week after week.

There is a coaching vacuum here.

 

[Smitty]

And why have to results been middle of the road?

Because what is getting called by the coaches works to an average degree?

Because our talent on the field has been able to improvise when the game plan and scheming failed week after week after week.

This doesn't make any sense.

The progression to sandlot football was at it's greatest it 2012 and it was our worst year yet in terms of statistics. Bob covered that quite well the other day; that Garrett's calls didn't work in 2012 but neither did the sandlot play.

But in the previous 5 seasons, yardage statistics were consistently top 5-10 but scoring statistics only were average. So are you saying that the "scheming" was only failing in the redzone in previous years?

No... The scheming in previous years was generating yardage results but was not working in the redzone. The majority of the accumulated yardage was due to whatever plays Garrett was calling.

The sandlot play is not an answer; its a symptom of the failure of the execution of the gameplans. But other than in scoring in the redzone, that hasn't been a problem until 2012.

 

[Clay_Allison]

And the results have been middle of the road... so it's not like he put up no results at all. The results, being average, are reflected from the lessened effectiveness of the skill position players from having that poor OL.

It's no different than the LBs or CBs being less effective if the DL doesn't control the line of scrimmage. It makes every player behind the line's job much harder.

2012 nothwithstanding, this offense's primary issue since Garrett arrived has been scoring, not moving the ball. That remains directly related to the complete inability to run the ball; but more specifically, to run the ball in the redzone and in situations where the defense knows it is coming. The OL simply cannot open holes in those situations.

Whether Garrett is responsible for picking the players who have not been able to get the job done is another issue; but fix the OL (and I don't mean 5 all stars, I mean, give us an OL on par with the Redskins or Giants) and most of the offensive problems we've seen regarding consistency and scoring rankings not matching yardage rankings will disappear.

Also doesn't help that the offense consists of tossing the ball out there and having Romo play street ball and improvise. So the offense makes some plays then either turns over the ball, gets a penalty, or has 3 quick incompletions to kill the drive. Lack of discipline (penalties, turnovers, game/clock management) is a coaching issue and it leads to inconsistency and an inability to turn yards into points.

It would help to have good offensive linemen, but to get those we need a coach on the staff who knows what an offensive lineman should look like on tape.

Maybe after we can Garrett we can pick up Mike Munchak or Russ Grimm as an OL coach and let them have a voice in how the line is built in the future.

 

[Smitty]

Also doesn't help that the offense consists of tossing the ball out there and having Romo play street ball and improvise. So the offense makes some plays then either turns over the ball, gets a penalty, or has 3 quick incompletions to kill the drive. Lack of discipline (penalties, turnovers, game/clock management) is a coaching issue and it leads to inconsistency and an inability to turn yards into points.

Notwithstanding that the OL struggles contribute to calling plays differently than you'd like to, the fact remains that this offense has been elite at moving the ball up and down the field with the exception of 2012, since Garrett got here.

So all these things you are saying Garrett is so bad at -- calling too many pass plays, no discipline, etc -- all seem to work between the 20 yard lines.

I don't believe the case can be made that all that success is a product of Romo streetball. Without question this year we saw the most streetball and it was the least effective year for us in terms of yardage, and Bob made a good case that the streetball was a large reason for the ineffectiveness in 2012.

Meanwhile, we all know, without question, that this OL hasn't been able to run block in years. And we all know -- if we know anything about football, anyway -- that lack of ability to run the ball in the redzone makes it a ton harder to score because passing is more difficult due to the defenders having less space to worry about covering.

If you're analysis isn't taking that into account, you are missing something.

Garrett clearly knows how to call plays that generate yards, he's got a 5 year track record to prove it.

Like I said earlier, the more valid debate here is whether and to what extent he is responsible for not having a legit OL. But the OL definitely is the root of the ineffective playcalls.

 

[Cujo]

If you don't know what you want, you can't complain if they don't give it to you. If I was coaching, I know I would identify linemen and lobby to get them. I'd be quicker to identify talent evaluation as the problem if we seemed to have some vision for what kind of lineman we want but we go for heavy or light linemen seemingly at random and there doesn't seem to be any end to that in sight.

Just last year we signed one of each at guard, showing that we have no idea what we want on the OL, and Jason and his brother Judd (director of pro scouting) signed off on it.

I agree. He can't be absolved of the responsibility because, clearly, he should be aware of the problem(s).

 

[Clay_Allison]

Notwithstanding that the OL struggles contribute to calling plays differently than you'd like to, the fact remains that this offense has been elite at moving the ball up and down the field with the exception of 2012, since Garrett got here.

So all these things you are saying Garrett is so bad at -- calling too many pass plays, no discipline, etc -- all seem to work between the 20 yard lines.

I don't believe the case can be made that all that success is a product of Romo streetball. Without question this year we saw the most streetball and it was the least effective year for us in terms of yardage, and Bob made a good case that the streetball was a large reason for the ineffectiveness in 2012.

Meanwhile, we all know, without question, that this OL hasn't been able to run block in years. And we all know -- if we know anything about football, anyway -- that lack of ability to run the ball in the redzone makes it a ton harder to score because passing is more difficult due to the defenders having less space to worry about covering.

If you're analysis isn't taking that into account, you are missing something.

Garrett clearly knows how to call plays that generate yards, he's got a 5 year track record to prove it.

Like I said earlier, the more valid debate here is whether and to what extent he is responsible for not having a legit OL. But the OL definitely is the root of the ineffective playcalls.

Garrett knows how to call plays that break down and cause Romo to scramble and then make a play to generate yards, he doesn't know how to call plays to generate a consistent drive down the field.

Sure the fact that he doesn't have an OL is part of it, but I don't believe that the lack of OL talent is all of it.

 

[Smitty]

Garrett knows how to call plays that break down and cause Romo to scramble and then make a play to generate yards, he doesn't know how to call plays to generate a consistent drive down the field.

That's not true. You cannot run an offense consistently with sandlot football and this year proved it. Romo is excellent at keeping plays alive but the OL certainly destroyed more than he resuscitated.

Our statistical finishes:

2007 - 2nd in points, 3rd in yards
2008 - 19th in points, 13th in yards
2009 - 14th in points, 2nd in yards
2010 - 8th in points, 7th in yards
2011 - 15th in points, 11th in yards
2012 - 15th in points, 6th in yards

Our average finish in yards in 7th since Garrett arrived (average scoring finish is 12th -- which makes sense... we've been a fringe playoff team and 12 teams make the playoffs every year). If you can't give credit to the playcaller for generating a consistent top-10 offense in yards generated, I don't think there's a point in continuing.

This year was our worst yet in terms of efficiency, but, what a shock! This was the worst OL we've had too.

Garrett knows how to put the skill position players on this offense in a position to rack up yardage.

Sure the fact that he doesn't have an OL is part of it, but I don't believe that the lack of OL talent is all of it.

The fact that he doesn't have an OL is the majority of it.

Look at what he's done without an OL. Everyone on this board agrees that this OL hasn't been able to consistently run block in years and that last year this OL was one of the worst in football.

Well, if the OL was the worst in football, if you replace it with even an average OL, the stats are going to shoot up. That's just how it works.

The numbers that Garrett has already put up would, almost by definition of the game of football, improve dramatically with a dramatic improvement in our blocking.

As such, you're going to see already top-10 yardage statistics get even better. You're gonna see that average 12th ranked scoring offense shoot into the top 10.

What else would you want besides a top-5 yardage and top-10 scoring every year with the occasional top-3 finish? There would not be much room left to complain about what he'd be calling; it'd be working.

Which is why I say fix the OL, the offense will be fixed. We know Garrett can get us consistently close to top 10 without an OL. With an OL, you'll be in it every year.

 

[Genghis Khan]

smitty, the only reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you don't want it to. It certainly makes objective sense. If you want to keep your head in the sand regarding Garrett be my guest.

The funny thing is we'll probably never get a definitive answer on Garrett. He won't win enough this season and he'll be fired. But we didn't fix the offensive line enough and that will always be the excuse. I doubt he'll get another HC job after this so we won't have anything else to judge him on.

 

[Smitty]

smitty, the only reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you don't want it to.

And because the facts don't support it.

The funny thing is we'll probably never get a definitive answer on Garrett. He won't win enough this season and he'll be fired. But we didn't fix the offensive line enough and that will always be the excuse. I doubt he'll get another HC job after this so we won't have anything else to judge him on.

I assume he'll end up being an offensive coordinator again. Maybe not immediately, I don't know that. Sometimes funny things happen.

I'd take him as an OC over half the coaches in the league. I'd definitely take him as an OC over a bunch.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Your interpretations of facts are not facts in and of themselves.

We scored over 10 points in the first half exactly once in 2012. That's a fact.

And it's not the sort of fact that refutes the notion that Garrett's game plans were inadequate.

 

[boozeman]

The funny thing is we'll probably never get a definitive answer on Garrett. He won't win enough this season and he'll be fired. But we didn't fix the offensive line enough and that will always be the excuse. I doubt he'll get another HC job after this so we won't have anything else to judge him on.

It will only be an excuse for Schmitty. If he's fired after this year, he would have been in a very prominent role in the organization for seven years. Sorry, if he wanted an OL by now, he would have had one. He's no more interested in it than Jones is. He just thinks some guy can coach dogshit into a decent line.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Your interpretations of facts are not facts in and of themselves.

We scored over 10 points in the first half exactly once in 2012. That's a fact.

And it's not the sort of fact that refutes the notion that Garrett's game plans were inadequate.

Our game plans were horrible. We didn't start putting up great numbers on offense until we basically tossed the game plan and let Romo be Romo. Maybe those game plans would work with the 49ers O-line, but good coaches have to make adjustments based on the talent of their team. I saw zero adjustment out of Garrett last year. Reminds me a little of Iowa and the way Ferentz sticks to his plan regardless of what actually works during games.

 

[boozeman]

Our game plans were horrible. We didn't start putting up great numbers on offense until we basically tossed the game plan and let Romo be Romo. Maybe those game plans would work with the 49ers O-line, but good coaches have to make adjustments based on the talent of their team. I saw zero adjustment out of Garrett last year. Reminds me a little of Iowa and the way Ferentz sticks to his plan regardless of what actually works during games.

Coaches have egos like everyone else. I have little doubt Garrett is any different.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Coaches have egos like everyone else. I have little doubt Garrett is any different.

The worst part is Garrett tends to be a little on the pass happy side, but he runs formations like he is a ground and pound it guy. If I never see a 1 WR formation in Dallas I would be a much happier person. It's not fooling anyone when you suck at running the ball.

 

[boozeman]

The worst part is Garrett tends to be a little on the pass happy side, but he runs formations like he is a ground and pound it guy. If I never see a 1 WR formation in Dallas I would be a much happier person. It's not fooling anyone when you suck at running the ball.

He's just too smart for everyone else. That is how Sooper Geniuses work. Tricky, tricky.

 

[Smitty]

Your interpretations of facts are not facts in and of themselves.

We scored over 10 points in the first half exactly once in 2012. That's a fact.

And it's not the sort of fact that refutes the notion that Garrett's game plans were inadequate.

I'm not refuting that fact. In case you're not paying attention, Clay said the only thing Garrett knows how to do is let Romo play sandlot ball. That statement is incorrect.

The facts are, we've been highly ranked in yardage for years now with the exception of 2012.

That doesn't happen with sandlot football.

Whatever complaints you have about Garrett... try to keep them based in reality. If there is one thing the guy has shown he can do it's get the offense to move the ball between the 20s at a high level on a year-in, year-out basis.

And you have pretty much nothing to dispute that.

So when you say "Well the only thing he can do is let Tony Romo take over and play sandlot football" that's just a dumb thing to say.

 

[Smitty]

Sorry, if he wanted an OL by now, he would have had one. He's no more interested in it than Jones is.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's not the debate.

Garrett has had a subpar offensive line since he got here (that's been getting pretty much steadily worse since 2007).

Yet he still manages to put up solid yardage numbers. That is one thing he has shown he can accomplish.

By and large his largest struggles are with scoring points and finishing. Which is by and large due to the OL.

Whether Garrett is responsible for the state of the OL is another issue.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's not the debate.

Garrett has had a subpar offensive line since he got here (that's been getting pretty much steadily worse since 2007).

Yet he still manages to put up solid yardage numbers. That is one thing he has shown he can accomplish.

By and large his largest struggles are with scoring points and finishing. Which is by and large due to the OL.

Whether Garrett is responsible for the state of the OL is another issue.

He also struggled badly with starting this year and the only way we got back into games is abandoning the game plan and playing higher tempo street ball.

If you don't think we've been too dependent on Romo making plays outside the play's design (and getting bit in the ass when that approach leads to turnovers) you've been watching some other team thinking it's the Cowboys.