President Trump Thread...

[jsmith6919]

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[lostxn]

I don't watch Fox News.

and yet you quote them...

I don't care if he directed it. It's not impeachable. I frankly remain to be convinced he did anything that was actually wrong.

It is fact impeachable. He was just impeached for it. You're entitled to your opinion but if the situation were reversed. your opinion would be reversed. Mine would not.

But the important takeaway here is that Adam Schiff has now twice fabricated evidence to try to create a basis on which to impeach.

I'm not sure what you're referring to but the President's people did cooperate with the Russians which is spelled out by the Mueller Report. As for this latest thing, there was nothing fabricated that I have seen. He mocked the President which seemed to get some panties in a wad. Wah...

The entire impeachment debate seems to hinge on whether what Trump did was "illegal" but the usage of that term as Democrats have been is misleading itself.

No, that's not correct. That's the Rep lawyer's take. Abuse of power doesn't require an illegal act. Trump could start selling pardons and I think few would argue that wouldn't be impeachable. That's why all these fuckers give out pardons like candy at the end of their terms.

I mean, it was illegal for Obama to do what he did in the Fast and Furious.

Declaring executive privilege? That's rich...

It was illegal for Obama to attempt to order amnesty for illegal immigrants.

He's a constitutional law professor and seems to disagree.

The problem is your mistaken understanding of what that term means. For my debtor example, the resolution to the illegal conduct is not jail, it's amending your schedules or face dismissal of your case. It MIGHT be illegal for Trump to withhold those funds, but the remedy to that breach of law is a lawsuit compelling him to release the funds. And since the funds have now been released, it's a moot point.

It's no more illegal than any unconstitutional executive order or unconstitutional piece of legislation that Congress ever passed. However, you don't remove the Senators from office for passing bad law or impeach the President for ordering an illegal executive order. You vote them out of office. Impeachment is for CRIMES, not simply illegal orders. And what's more, it's for high crimes and misdemeanors, like treason.

I'm not confused about anything. When a President uses the power of the Presidency to undermine the next election, that's something that needs to be addressed.

On the flip side, in a situation that is very similar to your misguided argument about Obstruction, which I'll get to momentarily, I'm not even sure he did anything wrong if he withheld the funds in an attempt to uncover actual wrongdoing on the part of someone else. You cry foul because it was the son of a potential political opponent, but if Hunter Biden was actually doing something illegal, then it makes sense that we don't want to be funneling money to a corrupt regime either. A directive to "clean your act up" before we give you the money is completely understandable even if it's not technically allowed under the Constitution (the remedy to which, again, is a lawsuit ordering Trump to release the funds). It's also something that seems like we do ALL THE TIME (essentially bribery of foreign governments to do what we want).

In any case, the bottom line is, the answer to this is replacement in the general election.

You position is so incredibly naive to the point where I can't believe you are actually believe it. You think Trump gives a rat's ass about corruption in Ukraine? He's quoted as being said he doesn't give a shit about Ukraine full stop.

You have no idea why or why not, so, your baseless speculation carries no weight. I will note this is all strikingly similar to the Russia investigation, which, newsflash: NO COLLUSION.

Did you read the Mueller Report? It did not say that. Trump said that. Barr said that. The report didn't say that. It said there was no criminal conspiracy. The special counsel wrote that Trump’s campaign “expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.” The campaign shared its campaign data about key battleground states with the Russians.

Barr did a masterful job of out-scheming both the Dems and Mueller himself. Misrepresenting Mueller's conclusions and delaying the release of the report to blunt its impact. It was not great for the President but the way it was released has given the cover to Trump, conservative media, and now you to give him a pass.

So his refusal to play along in that matter DID NOT mean he was hiding anything. Sorry!

Hold on Ukraine Aid Violated Law, Nonpartisan Watchdog Finds

Addressed already. No more illegal than an unconstitutional law passed by Congress or an unconstitutional executive order. Illegal meaning not allowed, but not wrongdoing punishable criminally or by removal from office. Obama had tons of things overturned. So therefore he acted illegally all the time.

This is a non issue report and one that is being used deliberately to mislead. Therefore you are a liar for repeating it.

I never said it was jail-able dumbass. The act itself is illegal but really no big deal if done for good reason. It's been done before on a non-partisan basis and nobody squawked. This was not the case.

I don't really get your logic for calling me a liar. The act was illegal, I merely included in my likely very incomplete list because it's timely.

I read the report. I suspect you haven't.

Nowhere does it say the President obstructed justice. In fact, it doesn't even conclude that a President is able to obstruct justice, nor does it conclude that if a President could obstruct justice, that Trump did obstruct justice. It says "maybe" and skirts around the issue. Which it does because it did not dare say "We found jack shit" after wasting years and millions of dollars on nothing.

I did read the report, thank you. There are 10 acts of obstruction which Mueller did not pass judgement on whether he would indict him for because of the DOJ ruling yadda yadda yadda.

Here's a better mind than yours who is a conservative on your favorite channel who doesn't agree with you.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Did President Trump obstruct justice?

The essence of obstruction is deception or diversion -- to prevent the government from finding the truth.

www.foxnews.com

That wasn't a campaign finance violation.

You should tell that to Michael Cohen. He'll be very relieved.

None of this has been proven, and it all happened before he was President, so again, not impeachable.

No shit. Wasn't the point. Somebody said he never has done anything illegal which is laughable.

Don't like him? Then don't vote for him.

Check

I agree he's odious.

Awesome sauce

Unfortunately, so are every candidate on the left (with the exception of Bernie Sanders, but, I can't vote for a socialist either).

I don't agree. I like Klobuchar quite a bit. I like Pete but he needs a bit more grooming. I like Yang a ton personally but think his ideas are bit out there. As I said, the people I support ain't going anywhere.

Anyway, I'm not interested in yet another 1,000 post back-and-forth with you. Your arguments are frequently pretty weak and often disingenuous. Also, don't love being called a liar. So feel free to get the last word. I won't read it.

 

[NoDak]

When a President uses the power of the Presidency to undermine the next election, that's something that needs to be addressed.

What exactly do you think the Dems have been trying to accomplish with this impeachment "they've been working on" for the last three years?

That's right. Attempting to undermine the next election.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Is that a serious question? He paid $25 million to settle the Trump university thing, his charity was shut down and the rest of the stuff he can't be indicted for because he's President.

Settling a lawsuit can also be a business decision because of financial consideration. Thousands of lawsuits are settled because the cost to continue litigation would exceed a settlement offer. Without knowing what is contained in the settlement agreement regarding the guilt or innocent status of the parties no one can declare any party being guilty. More times than not a settling party will do so with a not guilty status that is inclusive in the agreement.

 

[L.T. Fan]

@losttxn. You comment regarding the conclusion of the Mueller report about obstructing isn’t correctly stated. Mueller's conclusion of this aspect of his investigation was that he could not make a determination regarding this aspect because the evidence he had wasn't conclusive enough to make a absolute statement either way so he left it up to the Attorney General to offer his opinion and determination. The Attornet General ruled there was no clear evidence. As a result the status of the Mueller report is not guilty on either count.

 

[Cotton]

Schiff is a proven piece of shit.

 

[Cotton]

It is fact impeachable. He was just impeached for it. You're entitled to your opinion but if the situation were reversed. your opinion would be reversed. Mine would not.

He was impeached because of politics. Had jack shit to do with anything he did. This has been the most partisan and, quite frankly, damaging thing I have ever seen our Congress do, and boy is that saying something.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

He was impeached because of politics. Had jack shit to do with anything he did. This has been the most partisan and, quite frankly, damaging thing I have ever seen our Congress do, and boy is that saying something.

It's actually really sad that impeaching someone is all about politics and nothing about facts. That's not ever what it was meant for and yet here we are. The Democrats should be ashamed.

 

[L.T. Fan]

It's actually really sad that impeaching someone is all about politics and nothing about facts. That's not ever what it was meant for and yet here we are. The Democrats should be ashamed.

The democrats and media have been after Trump since he became a candidate for the Office of the President of The United States. It stared as a ridicule the man posture so when the polls started showing he was a serious candidate the shadow government movement began a process of trying to paint him as an asset of Russia to slow him down with his campaign.

When he won the election then the conspiracy system went full force with the help of the media to portray him as an office holder who needed to be impeached and removed in there effort to overturn the election. The Mueller appointment was to be the vechicle that would be the basis for impeachment but when it failed then in desperation the house leaders saw that they now had to find their own method to get him into an impeachment process or their election status could be jeopardized so they concocted a scheme to get another approach to the impeachment process and get it hurried through before the Christmas break .

Now they are desperately trying to find ways to get additional evidence because they know their case as is, will not get the job done because it is based on a hypothesis than will not stand up. And that’s where we are now.

It seems strange to me that they are going for broke rather than backing off but they have gone too far at this point otherwise they will have to admit it has all been a sham and their reputations may not stand an election for their individual retention of their office.

 

[Smitty]

It is fact impeachable. He was just impeached for it.

Oh, ok.

And so then when he's acquitted, that will mean he's innocent then, and I'll expect a full apology from you. And also since the Mueller report did not determine that he colluded or obstructed, I can expect you to stop referencing it then.

The process controls apparently.

I'm not sure what you're referring to

I'm referring to Schiff being a proven, demonstrated liar.

but the President's people did cooperate with the Russians which is spelled out by the Mueller Report.

To do what?

Not collude.

As for this latest thing, there was nothing fabricated that I have seen. He mocked the President which seemed to get some panties in a wad. Wah...

He deliberately redacted evidence showing that "Mr. Z" was not the Ukranian President.

It's deliberate falsification.

Now who is making excuses?

No, that's not correct. That's the Rep lawyer's take. Abuse of power doesn't require an illegal act.

It requires significantly more than this.

He's a constitutional law professor and seems to disagree.

Barack Obama a constitutional law professor.... I give a shit what he says.

You want actually unbiased?

Try lifelong Democrat Alan Dershowitz. A constitutional law professor.

Read up and get back to me once you've heard from someone without an axe to grind.

I'm not confused about anything. When a President uses the power of the Presidency to undermine the next election, that's something that needs to be addressed.

You apparently are confused, because that did not happen in the Russia scandal nor has it happened here.

And if you are so convinced that it did, you would be personally banging the drum for Hunter Biden to testify since it's extraordinarily relevant to the President's intentions.

Did you read the Mueller Report? It did not say that.

No, it did say that.

It said

did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.

I'm quoting.

I never said it was jail-able dumbass. The act itself is illegal but really no big deal if done for good reason.

Ok.

Then let's get Hunter Biden in here to testify.

It's been done before on a non-partisan basis and nobody squawked. This was not the case.

Yeah, but you have literally not a single shred of evidence about the "basis."

You are making an assumption because you're a liar and the very same partisan hack that you are claiming others to be.

Want the truth as much as you say?

Let's get Hunter Biden in here and find out if there was any corruption.

I don't really get your logic for calling me a liar.

Well, you are knowingly repeating lies and excusing the lies of people like Schiff and Biden.

I did read the report, thank you. There are 10 acts of obstruction which Mueller did not pass judgement on whether he would indict him for because of the DOJ ruling yadda yadda yadda.

Yes, because of actual division of powers, it's extremely likely that Trump was perhaps being an asshole but also acting within his rights/

Not a crime. Not conspiracy. Not "collusion" (a made-up term for this cycle because they knew that conspiracy was flat out false on it's face). Not anything different than normal political dirtbagging of the exact same nature as Obama and the Clintons accepting payments for "speeches" after helping out their Wall Street buddies or Clinton paying a foreign country for dirt in the form of the Steele Dossier (which, by the way, was totally fabricated).

Nothing at all different. Just bullshit from the left and their enablers, ie, you, because they haven't been able to get over losing an election.

Well, they are gonna reap what they've sown because Republicans aren't giving back the Senate any time soon and the next Democratic President can be impeached just as easily.

So feel free to get the last word. I won't read it.

Thanks, I will.

 

[L.T. Fan]

The Mueller report did not find any American citizen who colluded with the Russians. The indictments of the various individuals were for other unlawful acts none of which were tied to the Campaign committee. The only collusion indictments were the Russians.

 

[Smitty]

 

[Smitty]

 

[L.T. Fan]

What is so absolutely laughable about the Democratic allegations of Trumph withholding funds to the Ukraine’s , and although it is illegal if he did, he at least conformed to the law by undoing his action. How does this compare with all the people in Congress who advocate breaking of the immigration laws and encourage others in state s and cities. Which is the more impeachable? Breaking laws is breaking laws. So should congress impeach anyone who advocates in this manner.

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[bbgun]

He cares about normal people, and they know it.

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[L.T. Fan]

He cares about normal people, and they know it.

Now tell me this is a selfish, corrupt person that only thinks of himself and doesn’t care about this country. Those kind of folks wouldn’t do this.

 

[jsmith6919]