President Biden thread...

[Cotton]

Kinda stupid to try though.

Of course it is, but that demonstrates just how scared and desperate these people are.

 

[Smitty]

I don't see how anyone can blame the current or any of the previous administrations for this. IMO, the fault lies squarely at the feet of the Afghan government and security forces.

For 20 years US and international partners gave them endless supplies of money, military equipment (armored vehicles, weapons, helicopters, unmanned surveillance aircraft, etc.), countless hours of training and mentorship, and much more. And those bastards didn't even have the guts to even try to fight for their own damn country.

I wouldn't fault them if they lost to the Taliban in a long drawn out fight, but when you simply abandon your posts without even putting up a fight.....after you've received 20 years worth of international support....that tells me that you just didn't care. If the US would've stayed for 20 more years we'd see the same outcome we're witnessing today. Because they just don't care.

If you want to blame Trump, Biden, Obama, or Bush for anything you can blame them for painting false pictures in the public regarding the competence of the Afghan military and government. But other than that I'm not blaming any of them what's playing out in Afghanistan.

I remember being in Iraq in 2008 when Petraeus was in charge and he and other Generals used to run the same PR game. One time in particular Petraeus was doing an interview with the media from the streets of Baghdad during spring 2008. During the interview he and the members of the media walked the streets of Baghdad in order to portray this image of calm and tranquility in a newly "secured" Baghdad. But unknown to members of the media and general public was the US conducted a ton of security sweeps and clearing operations for about 2 weeks leading up to that interview in order to stage that scene of tranquility. Before those 2 weeks and after the interview, Baghdad was the same security mess that it's been since 2003.

I mean, the Biden administration is coming off looking real clueless about this whole situation which is not surprising given that Biden literally has cognitive decline - not trying to be an asshole, the guy simply is not all there anymore and it's just a fact - and that his entire campaign was "I'm not the devil Donald Trump." He has no plans for these events. He will take the blame because it's happening on his watch and he doesn't have an answer that keeps us from looking stupid. That's not to say Trump had any better answer but we don't know what he would have done because he's not in office anymore.

That being said the ultimate fault here isn't Biden any more than it is Trump any more than it was Obama. If anything it's Bush's fault, as the objective of nation building as a security measure (can't reduce terrorism by killing all terrorists, you need functioning governments to keep them in line) is correct in theory but in application it is well beyond the capabilities of the US military, or our budget.

I think you are right in many respects - the moderate Afghanis staring down the barrel of suicide bombers and fanatics who don't mind dying, just don't have the fortitude to fight and risk dying themselves. I don't know what makes someone want to risk that. If the Soviet Union invaded us and our army failed and I had to pick up a rifle myself, I might just say, "Eh, let's see what they are like as governors first." But some people would have no issue risking it all for that fight. It's blatantly obvious how those two camps have divided in the middle east and central asia, and I think you have seen and would see this again and again and again in any of those states. Whereas in the US I do think you'd see a lot of populations fight to the death.

 

[mcnuttz]

I'm feeling that post, @Smitty

We've enjoyed freedom our whole lives, these folks don't have a clue over there.

Easy to say that they should be able to pick up the weapons and fight, when their overriding instinct is to be fearful.

Just a shitty situation.

 

[bbgun]

 

[Sheik]

But he’s Presidential, so there is that.

 

[Cotton]

This is a very good thread.

 

[mcnuttz]

This is a very good thread.

Could you post it for those of us who aren't Twatters.

It only lets us read the first 6 posts.

kthnxbai

 

[jsmith6919]

Could you post it for those of us who aren't Twatters.

It only lets us read the first 6 posts.

kthnxbai

Former US intelligence colleagues are angry and deeply worried at what has happened in Afghanistan.

Here's what I'm hearing, and why there's nearly universal belief that America and the world are in for one of the most dangerous, unpredictable times in modern history.

1/12
Afghanistan has shown the world -- enemies & allies alike -- that our military & intel assets are largely irrelevant because we can't deploy them successfully.

The blame lays at the feet of multiple Presidents. The Generals. The Spies. The Congress.

America's Elites are trash.
China knows it.

They will become emboldened, covertly & overtly. War over Taiwan and contested islands in the S. China Sea and E. China Sea is now more likely.

Russia will consider similar covert & overt moves, focused on Crimea, & former Soviet satellites.
The fear is that China & Russia will act in concert.

Why? America was whipped by a tiny rebel force and couldn't even retreat properly.

Meanwhile, the American people are angry, COVID weary, & divided.

If there were ever a time to push American hegemony aside, this is it.
If Cold War III grows hot, America will need to quickly build up & work with foreign counterparts.

But who will trust America after Afghanistan?

Who believes we have the leadership to use our military might well?

Who will trust us when we say "We Will Stand With You"?
Beyond China/Russia, others will take gambles too.

Terror orgs like al-Qa'ida & ISIS are degraded but not dead. Their ideology is very much alive.

Iran's Hizballah -- with terror cells throughout the US -- may see an opening to create chaos too.
Meanwhile, the disaster inside Afghanistan is only just beginning.

The Taliban will launch a terror campaign against American collaborators. The pictures will shock the conscience of the world, further degrading American moral authority.

Biden & Co will struggle to respond.
There's also the nightmare of tactical weaponry now awash in Afghanistan, in the hands of the Taliban and -- soon -- on the global black market.

These arms will fuel chaos around the world for decades.

The Pentagon has no idea where this stuff is and no plans to destroy it.
Finally, if Afghani refugees pour into the US, there are profound implications for security, culture, the economy, & politics.

Are they properly vetted?
Do they hold Western / tolerant values re: women, gays?
Do they bring skills / education?
Which party will they support?
The existential problem is that America needs good leadership to right its ship but there is none.

Our federal bench is weak.

Biden is a corrupt old man. Impeachment is a long shot; VP Harris is an unpopular paperweight. The Legislature is a feckless cabal of empty suits.
Leadership could come from a state Governor, it's true, but not soon enough.

The above threats by China, Russia, & Co will metastasize well before the 2024 elections, and even a heroic new President will need years to clean things up.

Again, our enemies and allies know this.
Upshot: There is fear and outrage streaming through former intel officers over the Afghanistan debacle.

America is rudderless. And the world now knows it.

Grave dangers lie ahead, some predictable, others unimaginable.

Keep your loved ones tight. Pray. And vote for change.

 

[mcnuttz]

Appreciate you posting that.

It's a shame that our leader just assumes in these situations. He put us in harm's way by only showing half the story. Thanks for nothing, @Iamtdg

 

[Sheik]

Appreciate you posting that.

It's a shame that our leader just assumes in these situations. He put us in harm's way by only showing half the story. Thanks for nothing, @Iamtdg

For a second there I thought you were going on about Biden.

 

[mcnuttz]

For a second there I thought you were going on about Biden.

:eyebrow

You...saw what I did there?

 

[Cotton]

Appreciate you posting that.

It's a shame that our leader just assumes in these situations. He put us in harm's way by only showing half the story. Thanks for nothing, @Iamtdg

 

[mcnuttz]

It was a good thread, but i'd like to hear what some of the US intelligence folks are up to right nowand how they perceive the recent goings on. They're still working even if we've been led around with poor leadership for the last 20 years.

 

[mcnuttz]

Facts, like I can imagine what's gonna happen as well.

 

[1bigfan13]

That being said the ultimate fault here isn't Biden any more than it is Trump any more than it was Obama. If anything it's Bush's fault, as the objective of nation building as a security measure (can't reduce terrorism by killing all terrorists, you need functioning governments to keep them in line) is correct in theory but in application it is well beyond the capabilities of the US military, or our budget.

Excellent points here.

This is point that those screaming "we're still in Korea, Japan, Germany, etc." keep missing. The reason the US is able to stay in those countries is because those countries were able to quickly establish functioning governments, militaries, economies, and police forces. So there's not as much of a burden on the US to maintain a presence in those countries. Also, there weren't persistent terrorist attacks hampering reconstruction efforts.

It's impossible to nation build when the country you're occupying is incapable and unwilling to provide their own security.

I think you are right in many respects - the moderate Afghanis staring down the barrel of suicide bombers and fanatics who don't mind dying, just don't have the fortitude to fight and risk dying themselves. I don't know what makes someone want to risk that. If the Soviet Union invaded us and our army failed and I had to pick up a rifle myself, I might just say, "Eh, let's see what they are like as governors first." But some people would have no issue risking it all for that fight. It's blatantly obvious how those two camps have divided in the middle east and central asia, and I think you have seen and would see this again and again and again in any of those states. Whereas in the US I do think you'd see a lot of populations fight to the death.

I completely understand the average Afghan civilian being unwilling to fight. I'm talking about the guys who are in the Afghan security forces. Those are guys who have received extensive training from US and coalition partners. They received training in the field. They trained with our Special Forces Units. They received weapons training. They conducted hundreds of solo and partner assisted combat missions prior to our withdrawal. And so on. So I'm not giving those guys a pass. They weren't drafted into the military, they voluntarily signed up to protect and defend. Also, as I'm sure everyone's seen by now, they had plenty of military equipment and armor. So it's not like we sent them to a gun fight with a stick. Hell, they had equipment that was by far superior to what the Taliban had yet they still took the coward's way out. That's why I still lay the blame at their feet as well as the Afghan political leaders.

 

[Cotton]

Here is what I blame Biden for... there should have been a better plan for getting our interests out of that country before we pulled our troops. You get all US citizens out first, then your embassy personnel, then any equipment you need to take with you, and then you pull the troops. There are thousands of US citizens still stuck there. That should have been priority #1. This has been one of the biggest foreign policy fuckups in decades.

 

[mcnuttz]

Excellent points here.

This is point that those screaming "we're still in Korea, Japan, Germany, etc." keep missing. The reason the US is able to stay in those countries is because those countries were able to quickly establish functioning governments, militaries, economies, and police forces. So there's not as much of a burden on the US to maintain a presence in those countries. Also, there weren't persistent terrorist attacks hampering reconstruction efforts.

It's impossible to nation build when the country you're occupying is incapable and unwilling to provide their own security.



I completely understand the average Afghan civilian being unwilling to fight. I'm talking about the guys who are in the Afghan security forces. Those are guys who have received extensive training from US and coalition partners. They received training in the field. They trained with our Special Forces Units. They received weapons training. They conducted hundreds of solo and partner assisted combat missions prior to our withdrawal. And so on. So I'm not giving those guys a pass. They weren't drafted into the military, they voluntarily signed up to protect and defend. Also, as I'm sure everyone's seen by now, they had plenty of military equipment and armor. So it's not like we sent them to a gun fight with a stick. Hell, they had equipment that was by far superior to what the Taliban had yet they still took the coward's way out. That's why I still lay the blame at their feet as well as the Afghan political leaders.

Thanks for posting, I appreciate your perspective.

 

[Cotton]

Excellent points here.

This is point that those screaming "we're still in Korea, Japan, Germany, etc." keep missing. The reason the US is able to stay in those countries is because those countries were able to quickly establish functioning governments, militaries, economies, and police forces. So there's not as much of a burden on the US to maintain a presence in those countries. Also, there weren't persistent terrorist attacks hampering reconstruction efforts.

It's impossible to nation build when the country you're occupying is incapable and unwilling to provide their own security.



I completely understand the average Afghan civilian being unwilling to fight. I'm talking about the guys who are in the Afghan security forces. Those are guys who have received extensive training from US and coalition partners. They received training in the field. They trained with our Special Forces Units. They received weapons training. They conducted hundreds of solo and partner assisted combat missions prior to our withdrawal. And so on. So I'm not giving those guys a pass. They weren't drafted into the military, they voluntarily signed up to protect and defend. Also, as I'm sure everyone's seen by now, they had plenty of military equipment and armor. So it's not like we sent them to a gun fight with a stick. Hell, they had equipment that was by far superior to what the Taliban had yet they still took the coward's way out. That's why I still lay the blame at their feet as well as the Afghan political leaders.

I never wanted to be in that damn country to begin with. If we had executed a better withdrawal, I wouldn't have any issue at all. Let them duke it out. I don't give one damn about that country except them now having a better avenue to get into our country.

 

[1bigfan13]

Here is what I blame Biden for... there should have been a better plan for getting our interests out of that country before we pulled our troops. You get all US citizens out first, then your embassy personnel, then any equipment you need to take with you, and then you pull the troops. There are thousands of US citizens still stuck there. That should have been priority #1. This has been one of the biggest foreign policy fuckups in decades.

There were still troops in country.

Those extra troops were sent in once they saw things going south. But I think you make a fair point. They probably should have kept the troop numbers at around 5,000 or so until they wrapped up all of their official business.

I think there may have been some previous agreements with the Taliban and Afghan government to reduce troop numbers by a certain amount by summer. I seem to remember hearing someone mention that. So that may have influenced their decision. Even so, as POTUS I think he could have made a few calls to make adjustments to those agreements in order to ensure the security of US personnel.

 

[Cotton]

There were still troops in country.

Those extra troops were sent in once they saw things going south. But I think you make a fair point. They probably should have kept the troop numbers at around 5,000 or so until they wrapped up all of their official business.

I think there may have been some previous agreements with the Taliban and Afghan government to reduce troop numbers by a certain amount by summer. I seem to remember hearing someone mention that. So that may have influenced their decision. Even so, as POTUS I think he could have made a few calls to make adjustments to those agreements in order to ensure the security of US personnel.

It's unconscionable what Biden did. Not only did he leave US citizens, personnel, and troops in danger, but then he didn't even appear in public for 3 days. My god, he is the POTUS. He should have been out there day one at the podium trying to ease people's minds or at least informing the public of a new plan to fix it. It doesn't take 3 days for the greatest and most powerful country on the planet to pull together a new plan to fix it.