Preseason HOF game | Cowboys @ Steelers | 08/05/21 Gameday Chatter Thread...

[Simpleton]

No doubt the prime of this team was wasted under Garrett. I thought they'd have to really hit on their draft picks to compensate for the better players aging and getting paid big contracts. But, that might be happening with guys like Lamb and Parsons and maybe even guys like Diggs and Bossman Fat.

I think Lamb and Parsons could certainly be perennial Pro Bowl/cornerstone types. Diggs might not be quite at that level but I wouldn't be surprised if he made a Pro Bowl or two. Who knows about Bossman or any of the rest of these guys but I think the last two classes are certainly promising.

The problem is that when you don't do dick in FA everything has to align perfectly in terms of your drafts and the timelines/primes of different players to where you're strong enough throughout the roster to win it all.

I think this roster is close but you need health and strong coaching that maximizes the talent, neither of which I'm especially confident in.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I don't think this team is anywhere close to a teardown.

You don't tear things down when you have a top 5 / top 10 QB in his early prime.

That's not even mentioning an Oline that is near elite still if healthy, maybe the best or 2nd best receiving core in the league, and a multiple season rushing champion who is still in his 20s.

The offense was putting up 500 yards and 32 points per game when healthy last year. Those are best in the league numbers. The same cast is back this year and all still in their 20s.

I agree with Simp, the frustrating thing is if they spent just a bit they'd be right there with any team in the league.

They're actually pretty close to being contenders.

Unfortunately they've taken a cross-your-fingers approach to improving from where they're at, but that doesn't mean they should tear things down.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Also, forget the bloated contracts (the worst of which are probably Jaylon and Lawrence). They have plenty of money under the cap to do things if they want to.

 

[Genghis Khan]

i think we all agree with you in spirit,

I don't.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Smitty is much more down on the talent on this team than I am.

And I don't think the top contracts we have are much of a hindrance in reality (certainly not Martin or Cooper).

I also don't agree with constantly churning your top players to avoid paying market value contracts.

The big issue to me with contracts is like Jaylon when you are paying top money to a player who is useless or even a detriment to the team.

Paying productive players isn't really that big of an issue (ex.: Kansas City). I don't have any problems paying a guy like Martin. Or even a guy like Cooper who elevated the offense tremendously almost overnight.

 

[Simpleton]

I don't think this team is anywhere close to a teardown.

You don't tear things down when you have a top 5 / top 10 QB in his early prime.

That's not even mentioning an Oline that is near elite still if healthy, maybe the best or 2nd best receiving core in the league, and a multiple season rushing champion who is still in his 20s.

The offense was putting up 500 yards and 32 points per game when healthy last year. Those are best in the league numbers. The same cast is back this year and all still in their 20s.

I agree with Simp, the frustrating thing is if they spent just a bit they'd be right there with any team in the league.

They're actually pretty close to being contenders.

Unfortunately they've taken a cross-your-fingers approach to improving from where they're at, but that doesn't mean they should tear things down.

Yea, look at Tampa, basically half their defense was acquired through FA. Look at the Chiefs, they consistently make big moves like the Thuney signing, trading for Clark, signing Mathieu and so forth.

It's a bitch because we do draft relatively well and are generally on the cusp of being in that very top crust of teams (at least on paper) but they don't do the little bit extra to push them over the top. They never go all-in, they may think they do because they hand out big contracts to their homegrown players and in their novice football mind they're "all in" because they're spending big, but they aren't really.

It basically comes down to the fact that there is no real sense of urgency organizationally because nobody could potentially lose their jobs, combined with the fact that no matter how much Stephen tries (let alone Jerry) he'll never have the kind of innate football instincts that real personnel guys have.

Most real GM's only have a 5ish year window, they know their chances to strike while the iron is hot is limited, so if we had a real GM with this roster they'd have way more urgency to do everything they can to win it all since this may be their only shot.

Instead we have the fucking Clampett's over here who aren't worried about shit because they've had 25 years to putz around with another 25 to go.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I've said it before, but Dak determines our floor and the defense determines our ceiling.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You don't tear things down when you have a top 5 / top 10 QB in his early prime.

This is the real key. Teams try for years to get a good QB. Once you do, you don't start over from scratch.

 

[Genghis Khan]

This is the real key. Teams try for years to get a good QB. Once you do, you don't start over from scratch.

Exactly.

 

[Simpleton]

This is the real key. Teams try for years to get a good QB. Once you do, you don't start over from scratch.

Smitty's been watching too much hockey and baseball where teams routinely overhaul rosters with youth movements once they think they've hit their ceiling, football doesn't work like that.

Although the point that the lines need replenishing ASAP is valid. The only issue is that it's kind of hard to invest a 1st in a LT when Smith is still only 30 and a Pro Bowl player when on the field, and your defense is a complete sieve.

Ideally we'd find someone like Slater who can play inside and then kick out to LT when Smith is done, which is why he probably would've been my choice over Parsons even though I loved Parsons. Even then, you'd be displacing a guy like Williams who seems to be ascending unless he can move inside to center full-time.

Next offseason will be fascinating on a number of fronts because Williams has mostly been an afterthought but if he continues to improve, and especially if he takes over at center, he could easily become our number 1 FA priority.

 

[p1_]

Next offseason will be fascinating on a number of fronts because Williams has mostly been an afterthought but if he continues to improve, and especially if he takes over at center, he could easily become our number 1 FA priority.

Alll eyes on Biadasz. Better stay healthy, young'n.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The only thing needing a rebuild may be the offensive line. We have great weapons, a QB and a ton of youth on defense. Zeke may not be long for here but you don't rebuild for a rb.

And even the Oline, Collins is in his prime. It's really just Martin and Smith nearing the end.

 

[Simpleton]

The only thing needing a rebuild may be the offensive line. We have great weapons, a QB and a ton of youth on defense. Zeke may not be long for here but you don't rebuild for a rb.

And even the Oline, Collins is in his prime. It's really just Martin and Smith nearing the end.

And to be fair I feel very good that Martin can play at a Pro Bowl level for another 4-5 years. Smith is more up in the air because of his health but he could easily play another 4-5 theoretically if he's healthy.

The OL doesn't need a rebuild so much as a re-tooling, the DL needs a rebuild more or less because Lawrence won't be playing at a high level when he's 34 and we have basically no DT's, and even Gregory is nearing 30 even if he is fresher than the average 30 year old. Most of the young guys we have seem like they'll cap out as average to above average starters, so we need real difference makers there.

 

[Genghis Khan]

The only thing needing a rebuild may be the offensive line. We have great weapons, a QB and a ton of youth on defense. Zeke may not be long for here but you don't rebuild for a rb.

And even the Oline, Collins is in his prime. It's really just Martin and Smith nearing the end.

I don't see any sign that Martin is nearing the end.

 

[p1_]

I don't see any sign that Martin is nearing the end.

he's rock solid. That said, he has been injured, but not like Tyron.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I don't see any sign that Martin is nearing the end.

I don't either and Olineman can play well into their 30s. Smith is really the only one that makes me nervous because his injuries are the kind that could end a career early.

 

[Genghis Khan]

he's rock solid. That said, he has been injured, but not like Tyron.

I need more than 1 random injury before I'd be concerned about Martin.

Hell, I'm not even that worried about Tyron and his injuries have been much more chronic.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

And to be fair I feel very good that Martin can play at a Pro Bowl level for another 4-5 years. Smith is more up in the air because of his health but he could easily play another 4-5 theoretically if he's healthy.

The OL doesn't need a rebuild so much as a re-tooling, the DL needs a rebuild more or less because Lawrence won't be playing at a high level when he's 34 and we have basically no DT's, and even Gregory is nearing 30 even if he is fresher than the average 30 year old. Most of the young guys we have seem like they'll cap out as average to above average starters, so we need real difference makers there.

The Dline has been needing a rebuild for years. It's hard because we plug holes on the Dline with 1 year contracts. When we do find a guy they leave. We have drafted some guys but yeah I think DE is going to need a retooling very soon. But welcome to the NFL, everyone deals with that kind of stuff.

 

[Simpleton]

The Dline has been needing a rebuild for years. It's hard because we plug holes on the Dline with 1 year contracts. When we do find a guy they leave. We have drafted some guys but yeah I think DE is going to need a retooling very soon. But welcome to the NFL, everyone deals with that kind of stuff.

Yea, I'm not overly concerned about the future of the roster.

I'm most concerned about the front office's inability to strike while the iron is hot and the coaching staff than I am with the roster falling apart.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yea, I'm not overly concerned about the future of the roster.

I'm most concerned about the front office's inability to strike while the iron is hot and the coaching staff than I am with the roster falling apart.

Yeah it's hard when you don't use free agency. Even if you draft well those guys will continually age out or need contracts. So to get all the talent together at one time requires an extremely high level of drafting.

Especially when competitors are adding guys in free agency.

 

[bbgun]

Yeah it's hard when you don't use free agency. Even if you draft well those guys will continually age out or need contracts. So to get all the talent together at one time requires an extremely high level of drafting.

Especially when competitors are adding guys in free agency.

Tampa doesn't even sniff the SB without their free agents last year.