Meet the Texas wrestler who won a girls’ state title. His name is Mack.

[townsend]

What is the basis for your conclusion. Is it not a mental process since the physical state is 100% conclusive.

DSM-5

 

[L.T. Fan]

DSM-5

Since this is a manual about mental disorders can I assume you are agreeing that the transgender ia a mental problem?

 

[2233boys]

He should have been allowed to wrestle with the boys, patently unfair to the girls in the competition.

That being said, I have a huge issue with boys participating in historically female sports, and I was glad PA changed the rules a couple of years ago to disallow it in State Championship situations.

Also I know PA doesn't test for PED's not sure about Texas, but that could be the reason that wasn't a disqualifier.

 

[townsend]

Since this is a manual about mental disorders can I assume you are agreeing that the transgender ia a mental problem?

DSM doesn't have being transgender listed as a mental illness. It does have persons experiencing dysphoria due to being trans as an illness.

 

[NoDak]

That being said, I have a huge issue with boys participating in historically female sports.

Yeah, that whole pesky equality thing can be a pain when the other side might want something.

Here in North Dakota, it was decided that girls have the right and must be allowed to compete in traditional boys sports like wrestling and football if they choose, but boys do not have the right to compete in traditional girls sports like volleyball.

Earlier this season, a female wrestler from Velva ND was hurt during a match. Nothing out of the ordinary happened. Just a legitimate injury that could happen in any wrestling match at any time. Also, wasn't a serious injury, as she was back wrestling in a couple weeks. But the boy involved in the match received such hate and harassment over it, he quit the sport. From both kids and adults.

But on the bright side, that girl from Velva turned in to a nice feel good story for the champions for gender equality. She was the first female wrestler to EVER make the state championships in wrestling in the state of North Dakota. Unfortunately, she lost her first two matches and was out of the tourney. But her story made newspapers all across the state for her achievement of being the first girl to break through the glass ceiling of boys wrestling and making the state tourney. And coming back from injury to do it, no less. Yay equality.

But while those newspapers told how she fought back from injury to make it, (she place 4th in the qualifying regional tourney) they didn't say anything about how the kid that had the misfortune of being her opponent when she was injured was hatefully driven out of the sport. They also didn't mention that after that incident, some boys from opposing teams were scared to step on the mat against her, and would just forfeit instead.

Yay equality.

 

[2233boys]

Yeah, that whole pesky equality thing can be a pain when the other side might want something.

Here in North Dakota, it was decided that girls have the right and must be allowed to compete in traditional boys sports like wrestling and football if they choose, but boys do not have the right to compete in traditional girls sports like volleyball.

Earlier this season, a female wrestler from Velva ND was hurt during a match. Nothing out of the ordinary happened. Just a legitimate injury that could happen in any wrestling match at any time. Also, wasn't a serious injury, as she was back wrestling in a couple weeks. But the boy involved in the match received such hate and harassment over it, he quit the sport. From both kids and adults.

But on the bright side, that girl from Velva turned in to a nice feel good story for the champions for gender equality. She was the first female wrestler to EVER make the state championships in wrestling in the state of North Dakota. Unfortunately, she lost her first two matches and was out of the tourney. But her story made newspapers all across the state for her achievement of being the first girl to break through the glass ceiling of boys wrestling and making the state tourney. And coming back from injury to do it, no less. Yay equality.

But while those newspapers told how she fought back from injury to make it, (she place 4th in the qualifying regional tourney) they didn't say anything about how the kid that had the misfortune of being her opponent when she was injured was hatefully driven out of the sport. They also didn't mention that after that incident, some boys from opposing teams were scared to step on the mat against her, and would just forfeit instead.

Yay equality.

I get that concern with injury, and a boy being harassed for beating or hurting a girls who chooses to compete. Both circumstances suck, specifically for the boy, the girl and her parents knew of the risk, the boy was just competing. It isn't his fault if she is hurt or beat unless he breaks the rule. That's on the kid and her parents. I saw a girl tear her ACL in the only play she ever got into at the end of Varsity football game.

To me it is about an advantage, the girls don't possess an advantage competing in a boys sport. Girls competing in boys sports, helps meet Title IX requirements, so I don't see it ending. It costs to much to add a whole program just for the girls, finding competitions, fielding teams. Schools will do it to help meet Ratios

 

[skidadl]

I've had two experiences with girls competing with boys in sports. One was a girl that wanted to play on a football team that I coached. I didn't want her there but I also didn't want to deal with controversy so I let her on the team knowing she wouldn't last. The boys on the team absolutely didn't want her around either. They pretty much made sure that she physically couldn't handle it and quit.

The other was when my friend's son had to wrestle a girl. That is a no-win situation. If you lose you are scared for life, if you win you just beat up a girl. These poor boys didn't know where to out their hands at all. Basically the only thing to do was to tell him to overpower her and make it fast.

 

[L.T. Fan]

DSM doesn't have being transgender listed as a mental illness. It does have persons experiencing dysphoria due to being trans as an illness.

Then there is no disposition on Transdender as to disorder causation? If that is the case to me it is prima faca since the physiology of the individual is clear cut but the personal confrontation comes from their mental state.

That being said I am not well read on the "disorder".

 

[Angrymesscan]

Glad you are able to admit it's a mental illness.

It's like schizophrenia and should be treated, not enabled.

I'm guessing you think you can "deprogram" teh ghey too...?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I've had two experiences with girls competing with boys in sports. One was a girl that wanted to play on a football team that I coached. I didn't want her there but I also didn't want to deal with controversy so I let her on the team knowing she wouldn't last. The boys on the team absolutely didn't want her around either. They pretty much made sure that she physically couldn't handle it and quit.

The other was when my friend's son had to wrestle a girl. That is a no-win situation. If you lose you are scared for life, if you win you just beat up a girl. These poor boys didn't know where to out their hands at all. Basically the only thing to do was to tell him to overpower her and make it fast.

It's funny because it's all about equal rights and women's power one second. It's what Title IX is all about. But as soon as we talk about a man playing women's sports it's suddenly about "competitive advantages." I'm all for women having equal rights but the truth is there are differences between men and women. You can't just pretend that they don't exist. And that's why women should not be playing men's sport and vice versa. And frankly boys don't want to play girls sports, for the most part they would be ridiculed by their peers for doing so.

I know that's a bit off the transgender topic but just my two cents on that issue.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'm guessing you think you can "deprogram" teh ghey too...?

So a schizophrenic person should we be telling them that the gremlin in the corner is real? I'm all confused now.

 

[Angrymesscan]

So a schizophrenic person should we be telling them that the gremlin in the corner is real? I'm all confused now.

I'm not the one saying all mental illness are the same and should be treated the same...

 

[NoDak]

I'm not the one saying all mental illness are the same and should be treated the same...

I haven't seen where somebody has said they should be treated the same. But they have said they SHOULD be treated. Big difference.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'm not the one saying all mental illness are the same and should be treated the same...

True, but someone whose mind tells them one thing but reality is another we almost never treat by indulging their fantasy. You don't tell a person with body dysmorphia that they need more plastic surgery. You don't tell a schizophrenic person that the gremlin in the corner is real. It does seem a bit odd that when it comes to a transgender person we tell them that the fantasy is correct and that we should do whatever we can do to change their body to fit their incorrect mental perception.

Male and female genders are determined genetically. People just associate everything else with being male or female. The clothes, the barbies and things like that are what people use to describe their gender. But that's just all social construct. Your gender is determined by genetics. You're either genetically a boy or genetically a girl. And in rare cases your genetics may put you somewhere in between.

 

[townsend]

It's funny because it's all about equal rights and women's power one second. It's what Title IX is all about. But as soon as we talk about a man playing women's sports it's suddenly about "competitive advantages." I'm all for women having equal rights but the truth is there are differences between men and women. You can't just pretend that they don't exist. And that's why women should not be playing men's sport and vice versa. And frankly boys don't want to play girls sports, for the most part they would be ridiculed by their peers for doing so.

I know that's a bit off the transgender topic but just my two cents on that issue.

Women's sports were created to (mostly) be less competitive sports that women were capable of competing in. You just aren't allowed to say that. This is why a woman playing in men's sports is considered admirable, and a man competing in a woman's sport is shameful. It'd be like 16 year old playing on a college FB team, versus a 22 year old playing on high school JV team.

 

[skidadl]

Women's sports were created to (mostly) be less competitive sports that women were capable of competing in. You just aren't allowed to say that. This is why a woman playing in men's sports is considered admirable, and a man competing in a woman's sport is shameful. It'd be like 16 year old playing on a college FB team, versus a 22 year old playing on high school JV team.

Well yeah because women in general can't compete with men physically.

 

[townsend]

Then there is no disposition on Transdender as to disorder causation? If that is the case to me it is prima faca since the physiology of the individual is clear cut but the personal confrontation comes from their mental state.

That being said I am not well read on the "disorder".

I'm no expert. But the way I read it is that DSM considered dyphoria inspired by feelings of being identified as a different gender than they feel is a condition that requires treatment.

To make a terrible analogy, having pollen in the air isn't a problem, but a persons allergic reaction to that pollen is. The way I interpret it they are identifying a possible negative affect transgender persons encounter, but not identifying as the gender assigned at birth is not considered an issue in itself that requires medical intervention, therefore it isn't an illness.

 

[townsend]

Well yeah because women in general can't compete with men physically.

Yup, and that shouldn't be controversial. Sky is blue, water is wet, men on average have much more athleticism.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I'm no expert. But the way I read it is that DSM considered dyphoria inspired by feelings of being identified as a different gender than they feel is a condition that requires treatment.

To make a terrible analogy, having pollen in the air isn't a problem, but a persons allergic reaction to that pollen is. The way I interpret it they are identifying a possible negative affect transgender persons encounter, but not identifying as the gender assigned at birth is not considered an issue in itself that requires medical intervention, therefore it isn't an illness.

Mental or physiology illness I think the answer woul be clear. You can identify a phical disorder but a mental disorder requires a different approach. If they cannot ascertain what causes a person to be in conflict with themselves then the disorder would almost certainly be mental.

The fact that there doesn't seem to be a matter that requires treatment would seem to be a statement of "we don't know". Even you and I can conclude that something didn't seem to get wired naturally when the mind refuses to accept that you are born as a distinct gender person but cannot accept it.

 

[2233boys]

It's funny because it's all about equal rights and women's power one second. It's what Title IX is all about. But as soon as we talk about a man playing women's sports it's suddenly about "competitive advantages." I'm all for women having equal rights but the truth is there are differences between men and women. You can't just pretend that they don't exist. And that's why women should not be playing men's sport and vice versa. And frankly boys don't want to play girls sports, for the most part they would be ridiculed by their peers for doing so.

I know that's a bit off the transgender topic but just my two cents on that issue.

You'd be surprised, until the PA said that any female team who had a male on it had to compete in the male playoffs, you had it a lot in Volleyball and Field Hockey. Teams won state titles with males.

As an aside, Title IX is way more complex than you are alluding