MacMahon: No excuse for Dez to be targeted only twice

[Genghis Khan]

Except you shoot down every single one. You can say "they would fail here" but you imply that Garrett is uniquely qualified to coach here, and he clearly isn't. He had a lot of love and indulgence from Jerry and he used that to get Felix Jones and two TEs. He was Jerry's beloved football darling and he didn't once use that influence to get us a Carl Nicks. He failed to sell his biggest fan on building from the line because he's as big a loser and "weapon" chaser as Mike Martz was when he got power and influence in St Louis, going after Trung Candidates and Eric Crouchs.

You contrast that against how the real architect of the biggest show on turf went out and built an offense in Kansas City. Vermiel only added one of the greatest LTs in history to Will Shields and Brian Waters and let the line create a beast on the ground and effectiveness through the air.

That's the difference between an offensive genius like Vermiel or Norv Turner and a POS poser like Garrett, Martz, Al Saunders.

Well said.

 

[Smitty]

Except you shoot down every single one.

I haven't heard someone who I think will be elite here yet. Conversely, you guys think any shot in the dark, while completely unknown, is an improvement just because it's unknown.

I'd be holding out for a truly good name, and they do come available every year or two, historically. There will be one this year, if not, there will be one next year.

And, FWIW, I haven't shot down Roman or Carmicheal yet (though I haven't endorsed either).

You can say "they would fail here" but you imply that Garrett is uniquely qualified to coach here, and he clearly isn't.

I fail to see how saying that they would also underachieve implies Garrett is better. I'm saying that neither would be good enough.

 

[boozeman]

I haven't heard someone who I think will be elite here yet. Conversely, you guys think any shot in the dark, while completely unknown, is an improvement just because it's unknown.

I'd be holding out for a truly good name, and they do come available every year or two, historically. There will be one this year, if not, there will be one next year.

Who is "elite" that you see shaking loose? Serious question here. It is not like there is an Andy Reid about to get canned somewhere.

 

[Smitty]

Who is "elite" that you see shaking loose? Serious question here. It is not like there is an Andy Reid about to get canned somewhere.

I don't know right now. Not many people could foresee a Jim Harbaugh coming up more than a year in advance, though.

 

[boozeman]

I don't know right now. Not many people could foresee a Jim Harbaugh coming up more than a year in advance, though.

Nonsense. Harbaugh was a hot college coach who the Jets interviewed in 2009.

 

[Smitty]

Nonsense. Harbaugh was a hot college coach who the Jets interviewed in 2009.

He did not have the same status he did by 2010 when everyone was talking about him as the next big thing.

 

[boozeman]

He did not have the same status he did by 2010 when everyone was talking about him as the next big thing.

Move the goal posts, like you always do.

 

[Simpleton]

A shot in the dark would be better than what we have now because Garrett is quite clearly not going to get it done here.

 

[boozeman]

Schmitty (circa 2006): Somebody is out there! You can't tell me someone better than Phillips isn't out there! McDaniels!

Schmitty (2013): You can't tell me a shot in the dark is better than what we have. When a Hall of Fame coach falls out of the sky, let me know.

 

[Simpleton]

Good Christ, 7 years, we've really been going after it for a while now.

 

[Smitty]

Schmitty (circa 2006): Somebody is out there! You can't tell me someone better than Phillips isn't out there! McDaniels!

Schmitty (2013): You can't tell me a shot in the dark is better than what we have. When a Hall of Fame coach falls out of the sky, let me know.

Yes, and the difference is, its true that literally anyone is better than a person who is without question one of the worst head coaches in football, a proven 3 time (now 4 time) loser who leaves every team worse than when he got there.

Whereas maybe not everyone is better than an average head coach.

 

[Smitty]

Move the goal posts, like you always do.

How is that moving the goal posts?

I am saying it will become evident that there is a quality, can't-miss coaching prospect out there sooner or later. Harbaugh was not a can't-miss coaching prospect in 2009, he earned that status in 2010 prior to being hire by the 49ers. Reid was out there this year, before them it was Rex Ryan in 2009. That's 3 in 4 years, if I stopped to think about it there'd probably be others in that span too.

If there is not one that is obvious right now, I would expect sooner rather than later one will crop up, because they always seem to do so every couple offseasons at the very least.

That being said not every coordinator who has success is someone we should consider as a possible HC here. Most of the Gus Bradleys and Mike McCoys would fail miserably here under Jerry, I think we should be swinging for the fences.

 

[boozeman]

How is that moving the goal posts?

Provide evidence contrary to what you said and you changed the parameters.

I am saying it will become evident that there is a quality, can't-miss coaching prospect out there sooner or later. Harbaugh was not a can't-miss coaching prospect in 2009, he earned that status in 2010 prior to being hire by the 49ers. Reid was out there this year, before them it was Rex Ryan in 2009. That's 3 in 4 years, if I stopped to think about it there'd probably be others in that span too.

Rex Ryan was hardly "can't miss".

If there is not one that is obvious right now, I would expect sooner rather than later one will crop up, because they always seem to do so every couple offseasons at the very least.

That being said not every coordinator who has success is someone we should consider as a possible HC here. Most of the Gus Bradleys and Mike McCoys would fail miserably here under Jerry, I think we should be swinging for the fences.

So this is how "somewhere, out there" from seven years ago has changed. Got it.

 

[Smitty]

Provide evidence contrary to what you said and you changed the parameters.

Whatever. If you don't think that Harbaugh was all the rage in 2010, you must be misremembering, we were going nuts for him on this board even, when debating whether Garrett should be extended past his interim status. We were not doing that in 2009.

There was definitely more hype by that point, which is what I was talking about.

Rex Ryan was hardly "can't miss".

I considered him can't miss. And that is the kind of feeling I'd like to have about the next head coach we line up.

So this is how "somewhere, out there" from seven years ago has changed. Got it.

Somewhere out there I'm sure there is someone better than Garrett. We should find him before we just hire anyone though.

Whereas with Phillips, some of your more intelligent dogs might have even been a better choice.

 

[NoDak]

Somewhere out there I'm sure there is someone better than Garrett. We should find him before we just hire anyone though.

Whereas with Phillips, some of your more intelligent dogs might have even been a better choice.

You hold Garrett so much higher than Wade. But honestly, what has Garrett done to deserve it? Tell us something tangible. Not just your 'feelings'. It certainly isn't shown in the teams record and direction.

 

[Texas Ace]

You hold Garrett so much higher than Wade. But honestly, what has Garrett done to deserve it? Tell us something tangible. Not just your 'feelings'. It certainly isn't shown in the teams record and direction.

You're wasting your time.

Garrett is in no way better than Wade. So what if he holds his players slightly more accountable if it doesn't make any difference in the win/loss column?

He can't accept it, but for all of Wade's flaws, he's still a better HC than Garrett and his resume proves that.

 

[Smitty]

You hold Garrett so much higher than Wade. But honestly, what has Garrett done to deserve it? Tell us something tangible. Not just your 'feelings'. It certainly isn't shown in the teams record and direction.

I've answered this question many times: He does things the right way. He may not be a great X's and O's strategist, but he actually runs the team. Wade wasn't interested in being anything more than a friend and coordinator and the team spiraled out of control, like I knew it would when he was hired, because of it.

I would be very surprised if that happens with Garrett. He churns the roster, he benches players, he does actually make them practice harder (though this week's cancellation of practice was disconcerting), he makes them show up on time to meetings (that was one of the first changes he implemented when taking over for Phillips -- what a fucking joke that the previous head coach didn't even care about that.... because he was a fake, fraudulent imposter of a head coach), he at least PREACHES accountability and sends the right message, he implemented a dress code (which I like, it gets them thinking about being professionals). All those things should be what you expect out of a head coach, and we didn't get any of it out of Wade, because he's a joke, he is ACTUALLY one of the worst coaches in the league. That is what bad coaching looks like, not failure to get over the hump like we are currently struggling through. Those things matter, because as much as no one likes to hear it, they build character, they get people in the right mindset, and yes, over time, they do produce results (or at least prevent collapses).

It's true that Garrett has not run up a won-loss record that is better than Wade's was, nor has he gotten a playoff win, but I don't think that means that he's done an equal or worse coaching job. Wade took a team that was a Super Bowl contender on paper, left them on autopilot, and within 3 years they were ready to completely fall apart, and did so by going 1-7 to start 2010. It would not have gotten better. I suspect had Wade kept his job, these last 2 years would not have been 8-8s, they would have been 5-11s or worse.

In any case, I disagree about it not being reflected in the team's direction. The team has flattened out right now -- obviously not good enough -- but the arrow isn't pointed straight down like it was under Wade.

 

[Smitty]

You're wasting your time.

Garrett is in no way better than Wade. So what if he holds his players slightly more accountable if it doesn't make any difference in the win/loss column?

He can't accept it, but for all of Wade's flaws, he's still a better HC than Garrett and his resume proves that.

Laughable.

This is why I defend Garrett. It's complete nonsense to compare him to Wade. Wade is the coaching equivalent of the AntiChrist. He is the exact opposite of everything you should want as a head coach. Garrett is at least "just some guy" who isn't special enough to make a difference.

Wade's record proves jack shit other than he's good at taking a Bill Parcells contender and destroying it in no time flat. It's hilarious that anyone would take that to mean he's a better coach than anyone else. It means about as much to me as Barry Switzer's fraudulent Super Bowl ring.

If his record "proves" he's better than Garrett then it also proves he's one of the best head coaches in the league, because he had one of the best W-L records among active coaches in his time here. But since I know that's ridiculous, I also know that Wade's W-L record doesn't mean he's better than anyone, including Garrett.

 

[NoDak]

I've answered this question many times: He does things the right way. He may not be a great X's and O's strategist, but he actually runs the team. Wade wasn't interested in being anything more than a friend and coordinator and the team spiraled out of control, like I knew it would when he was hired, because of it.

I would be very surprised if that happens with Garrett. He churns the roster, he benches players, he does actually make them practice harder (though this week's cancellation of practice was disconcerting), he makes them show up on time to meetings (that was one of the first changes he implemented when taking over for Phillips -- what a fucking joke that the previous head coach didn't even care about that.... because he was a fake, fraudulent imposter of a head coach), he at least PREACHES accountability and sends the right message, he implemented a dress code (which I like, it gets them thinking about being professionals). All those things should be what you expect out of a head coach, and we didn't get any of it out of Wade, because he's a joke, he is ACTUALLY one of the worst coaches in the league. That is what bad coaching looks like, not failure to get over the hump like we are currently struggling through. Those things matter, because as much as no one likes to hear it, they build character, they get people in the right mindset, and yes, over time, they do produce results (or at least prevent collapses).

It's true that Garrett has not run up a won-loss record that is better than Wade's was, nor has he gotten a playoff win, but I don't think that means that he's done an equal or worse coaching job. Wade took a team that was a Super Bowl contender on paper, left them on autopilot, and within 3 years they were ready to completely fall apart, and did so by going 1-7 to start 2010. It would not have gotten better. I suspect had Wade kept his job, these last 2 years would not have been 8-8s, they would have been 5-11s or worse.

In any case, I disagree about it not being reflected in the team's direction. The team has flattened out right now -- obviously not good enough -- but the arrow isn't pointed straight down like it was under Wade.

So basically, another of your novellas that says nothing. Garrett has done nothing to improve this team. I don't give a flying fuck if they wear ties on the plane or any of that other horseshit. Wins and losses. That's it. That's all. What's that you say? He hasn't improved there? It doesn't look like that will improve in the forseeable future? Then he can GTFO. He's no better than Wade, regardless of the window dressing you think makes him better.

 

[Carp]

Good lord...I wanted Wade gone too, but to say his teams would have been 5-11 or worse instead of the stellar 8-8 season Garrett put together is ridiculous.