Interesting race topics . . .

[yimyammer]

 

[Genghis Khan]

America wasn’t founded on slavery in 1619 — but on Pilgrims’ ideals written in 1620

In August 1619, a pirate ship, the White Lion, stopped at Jamestown and traded 20-some captive Africans for food. The Africans were treated as indentured servants and soon released. Fifteen months …

nypost.com

America wasn’t founded on slavery in 1619 — but on Pilgrims’ ideals written in 1620
By Peter W. Wood

November 7, 2020 | 12:30pm


In August 1619, a pirate ship, the White Lion, stopped at Jamestown and traded twenty-some captive Africans for food. The Africans were treated as indentured servants and soon released.

Fifteen months later, in November 1620, an English ship blown off course on its way to Virginia ended up off the barren coast of Massachusetts. It landed more than one hundred men, women and children. Those voyagers founded Plymouth Colony.

Which event mattered more?

Last year The New York Times declared that the arrival of the captives in Virginia was the “true beginning” of America — an America the Times characterized as a “slavocracy.” The Times calls its campaign to promote this story The 1619 Project. In my new book, “1620,” I argue that the arrival of the Pilgrims along with dozens of non-Pilgrims (“strangers” as the Pilgrims called them) aboard the Mayflower is the real beginning of America.

Why? Because before this mixed group stepped ashore they signed an agreement, which we now call the Mayflower Compact. In that document they set aside their deep divisions and voluntarily joined together to govern themselves with “just and equal laws.” This was the very beginning of principled self-government among European settlers in the New World. The Mayflower Compact is not quite 200 words long but those words pack almost as much meaning as Jefferson distilled into the Declaration of Independence 156 years later, or Lincoln in 1863 condensed into the Gettysburg Address.

The Mayflower Compact is a much humbler document than those two, but it has the advantage of being the first: the first time a mutually suspicious collection of settlers decided, without compulsion, to respect one another’s rights. Plymouth enacted its own laws, elected its own leaders, and after a winter of severe hardship, thrived as a peaceful self-governing community.

Meanwhile, Virginia was run by a private company in England which allowed the settlers some limited choices. Jamestown’s place in American history is secure, but it never became the model for American independence or a template for self-government.

Americans have so long cherished the story of the Pilgrims surviving in the wilderness with the help of Native Americans that we sometimes forget why this tiny colony was so important to our history. It is because they invented a prototype of our republic. The New England town became the very model of American self-reliance and ordered liberty. Plymouth also lived in peace with its neighbors, the Wampanoags, in a treaty that was unbroken for more than fifty years.

As pioneers of later generations carved new towns out of the wilderness, they looked back to Plymouth as the ideal of how to form a moral community based on equality. The signers of the Mayflower Compact were both Pilgrims and Strangers, young and old, prosperous and poor. Hierarchy was ignored. Masters and servants both signed. We can see this now in the seeds of the egalitarian America that would eventually shake off British rule and the yoke of Old Europe’s class system.

By contrast, the arrival of those pirates in Jamestown with their twice-stolen African captives laid no foundation at all. Slavery was already present in the Americas but it wouldn’t take root in the English colonies until more than half a century later.

The New York Times portrays slavery as starting in Jamestown in 1619 and spreading from there to become the bedrock of American society. That’s a false history, a myth.

The Pilgrims have also been mythologized from time to time, but the difference is the Mayflower Compact truly is the precursor to 1776, and Plymouth the archetype of American self-government.

Peter Wood is president of the National Association of Scholars. His book, “1620: A Critical Response to the 1619 Project” (Encounter Books), is out Nov. 17.

 

[jsmith6919]

 

[yimyammer]

What does everyone think about the phrase "white privilege"?

The word "privilege" doesnt sit well with me and I cant get comfortable with how to articulate why. It feels deliberately provocative and unnecessarily strident, if not outright wrong

I do think black people have to deal with certain crap "white" and other classifications don't but that doesnt guarantee failure nor prevent success imo

 

[L.T. Fan]

What does everyone think about the phrase "white privilege"?

The word "privilege" doesnt sit well with me and I cant get comfortable with how to articulate why. It feels deliberately provocative and unnecessarily strident, if not outright wrong

I do think black people have to deal with certain crap "white" and other classifications don't but that doesnt guarantee failure nor prevent success imo

If there was or is a standing white privilege I sure as heck wish I would have discovered it. It eluded me because I had to work my butt off to get where I did.

 

[yimyammer]

If there was or is a standing white privilege I sure as heck wish I would have discovered it. It eluded me because I had to work my butt off to get where I did.

I agree LT.

However I do think there are some doors that get opened easier for "white" people but the rest of the story no one mentions is you better step up to the plate because no one gives a shit if your white ass gets fired for not doing a good job plus no one is afraid to fire the so-called "white" person (unless of course its a government job). This is a privilege in a sense because I never developed a mentality I was owed something or someone would have my back, so when I fail I don't even think its because of the color of my skin, I have to come to terms with my deficiencies and then determine whether I'm willing to put in the work to remedy my weaknesses and come back stronger and more valuable from the experience.

I'm in a discussion group called Together We Dine where we discuss race issues in a group format (was in person but its now over Zoom). There are several black people in each group and we have great discussions about the police, race, etc. The only criteria is to have "candid and courageous conversations". The people I've met are really great and its encouraging to meet people and talk face to face as its NIGHT & DAY from what we see on Twitter, et al and its refreshing.

The two black people in my group told us stories of how when they grew up (and I hope this is no longer the case) they were taught to always have a receipt for everything they purchase and to not take anything out of the grocery bag while walking home, not even drinking a soda because police would stop them and ask them to prove they didn't steal what they were carrying. This is what they think of as white privledge because most white people have never had to endure something like this, I know I haven't.

I wouldn't call this a privilege, I'd call it a basic human right everyone should have and wherever people don't have this freedom, the spotlight should be shown on those situations not the fact that so called "white" people are privileged but I suspect the word "privilege" is used to be provocative in order to bring attention to the situation much like saying "defund police" gets everyones attention but when you ask what they mean, its drastically different than the controversial catch phrase implies

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If there was or is a standing white privilege I sure as heck wish I would have discovered it. It eluded me because I had to work my butt off to get where I did.

White privilege is just a racist term created to rob people of their accomplishments. You worked your ass off to be successful? Incorrect, white privilege. You stayed out of legal trouble your whole life, nope you weren't good, it was just white privilege.

 

[yimyammer]

You stayed out of legal trouble your whole life, nope you weren't good, it was just white privilege.

When I was about 15, we talked a guy running a Radio Shack into opening his doors a little longer as he was closing up when we arrived. So I got my buddy to talk to him in order to distract him while I stole 2 speakers at the front of the store and hid them in the bushes and came back in the store before he noticed I left. I was so stupid, I stole 2 speakers that were set up as models that were sitting right by the front exit door so as he walked us out to lock the door behind us he looked down and started screaming:

"Where are the Minimus 7's?, WHERE ARE THE MINIMUS 7'S??, WHERE ARE THE MINIMUS 7'S???"

I can still hearing it ringing through my head to this day

I was thinking Oh shit, I really fucked up this time.

He blocked the door and started reaming us saying he trusted us and stayed open because we were white and he wouldn't have done it for all the N%&&^% in the neighborhood that constantly steal from him and then we turn around and fuck him over. He was furious (for good reason), I went and grabbed the speakers and gave them back, he took me in a back room and let me have it for what seemed like hours but was really only like 10 minutes; I was about to shit my pants because I already had one strike for stealing beer out of garages and was told if I got caught again, I'd have to go to Juvey so I was sweating bullets.

There was no doubt he let me go because in his eyes, I wasn't a N&$&$%

Thats the last time I remember stealing anything

was that white privilege?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

When I was about 15, we talked a guy running a Radio Shack into opening his doors a little longer as he was closing up when we arrived. So I got my buddy to talk to him in order to distract him while I stole 2 speakers at the front of the store and hid them in the bushes and came back in the store before he noticed I left. I was so stupid, I stole 2 speakers that were set up as models that were sitting right by the front exit door so as he walked us out to lock the door behind us he looked down and started screaming:

"Where are the Minimus 7's?, WHERE ARE THE MINIMUS 7'S??, WHERE ARE THE MINIMUS 7'S???"

I can still hearing it ringing through my head to this day

I was thinking Oh shit, I really fucked up this time.

He blocked the door and started reaming us saying he trusted us and stayed open because we were white and he wouldn't have done it for all the N%&&^% in the neighborhood that constantly steal from him and then we turn around and fuck him over. He was furious (for good reason), I went and grabbed the speakers and gave them back, he took me in a back room and let me have it for what seemed like hours but was really only like 10 minutes; I was about to shit my pants because I already had one strike for stealing beer out of garages and was told if I got caught again, I'd have to go to Juvey so I was sweating bullets.

There was no doubt he let me go because in his eyes, I wasn't a N&$&$%

Thats the last time I remember stealing anything

was that white privilege?

See I don't think of that as white privilege. If you were black and he did that would it be black privilege? Or would it just be a dude doing the right thing. He dealt with it, scared the shit out of you, and you probably never tried to steal from him again as a result.

I got a public intoxication ticket in college for sitting on a bench eating a sandwhich after the bars closed. I was 21, causing no trouble and going home afterward. It was an asshole move by a cop. Is that white privilege? I got detained once walking home in St. Louis by a black cop claiming someone was breaking windows in the area. Was that white privilege? Clearly not.

Everyone has different experiences. You can't discourage a whole group based on race because of some people's experiences. Also discrimination against one race doesn't make another race privileged. By that logic why does no one talk about Asian privilege. Because it doesn't exist.

 

[yimyammer]

good points, I hate that noun (or is it an adjective, I suck at English, etc).

Maybe it would be more accurate if I described my situation back then as lacking "black disadvantage"?

 

[Cowboysrock55]

good points, I hate that noun (or is it an adjective, I suck at English, etc).

Maybe it would be more accurate if I described my situation back then as lacking "black disadvantage"?

That would be more accurate sadly. Racism is a horrible thing. But that isn't a reason to try and degrade other races. It's the racist who should be targeted. Not people because of their race.

 

[jsmith6919]

That would be more accurate sadly. Racism is a horrible thing. But that isn't a reason to try and degrade other races. It's the racist who should be targeted. Not people because of their race.

Correct, blaming a whole race as racist is how we end up with the critical race theory training which is basically racism vs white people

 

[yimyammer]

Its times like this when I wonder what Jamele Hill thinks

 

[Cotton]

Its times like this when I wonder what Jamele Hill thinks

I never ever wonder what that stupid cunt thinks.

 

[jsmith6919]

Its times like this when I wonder what Jamele Hill thinks

Yeah I don't give a fuck what that race-baiter thinks

 

[yimyammer]

I'm starting to get the feeling you guys didn't pick up on my sarcasm

 

[Cotton]

I'm starting to get the feeling you guys didn't pick up on my sarcasm

I got got.

 

[jsmith6919]

Shit like this is why I pay for my grandkids to go to private school

 

[yimyammer]

what an exhausting and tedious read

I have no idea wtf she meant or wants

kind of like Chappelles recent monologue on SNL, sad to see the SJW & woke crowd got to him and apparently ruined his comedy too

 

[Smitty]

When I was about 15, we talked a guy running a Radio Shack into opening his doors a little longer as he was closing up when we arrived. So I got my buddy to talk to him in order to distract him while I stole 2 speakers at the front of the store and hid them in the bushes and came back in the store before he noticed I left. I was so stupid, I stole 2 speakers that were set up as models that were sitting right by the front exit door so as he walked us out to lock the door behind us he looked down and started screaming:

"Where are the Minimus 7's?, WHERE ARE THE MINIMUS 7'S??, WHERE ARE THE MINIMUS 7'S???"

I can still hearing it ringing through my head to this day

I was thinking Oh shit, I really fucked up this time.

He blocked the door and started reaming us saying he trusted us and stayed open because we were white and he wouldn't have done it for all the N%&&^% in the neighborhood that constantly steal from him and then we turn around and fuck him over. He was furious (for good reason), I went and grabbed the speakers and gave them back, he took me in a back room and let me have it for what seemed like hours but was really only like 10 minutes; I was about to shit my pants because I already had one strike for stealing beer out of garages and was told if I got caught again, I'd have to go to Juvey so I was sweating bullets.

There was no doubt he let me go because in his eyes, I wasn't a N&$&$%

Thats the last time I remember stealing anything

was that white privilege?

I mean, and is that white privilege?

If a black kid did it and the police were called, guess what, he ACTUALLY DID IT, like you did. Try not committing a crime and then tell me that story of being wrongfully prosecuted or not.

Unfortunately there are still racist people out there, but race is one factor in people judging the totality of these circumstances usually - not just skin color but how you are dressed, how you speak, how you react to the confrontation, etc. He may have stated it was your skin color but if you were an asshole to him I'm sure he reacts differently. It's never just one factor.