Eatman: Despite Losing Ware and Hatcher, Jones Certain D-Line Improves

[L.T. Fan]

It's not about you getting pissed. It's about the conversation of the draft picks this teams take. If someone goes in the 1st then they are expected to maintain that draft status or they are a bust.

To try to rationalize picks any other way is silly.

That's fine. I'm not the one who is pissed.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Ur doing it wrong.

 

[Smitty]

I don't think Ealy ends up in that range.

Well then we disagree on the player.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I liked Brooking, though I always thought he was a bit small and wore down as a result. For a while in the 2000's he was one of the best at his position. Ward, though... good catch. I'd think he had a better career than Ellis.

My main point was just because Jerry and Joe Fans overrated Greg Ellis doesn't mean he wasn't an outstanding player.

I was kind of with you until you use the word outstanding.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I always thought Ellis would have been a better player if he hadn't broken his leg. After that he was uncomfortable playing on the right side and never seemed explosive again.

 

[ravidubey]

If you could guarantee me a Greg Ellis without the late career bitchiness I'd take him at 16 no problem.

No problem at all.

 

[Clay_Allison]

If you could guarantee me a Greg Ellis without the late career bitchiness I'd take him at 16 no problem.

Me too, but I think Greg Ellis is Ealy's ceiling, not his floor.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Me too, but I think Greg Ellis is Ealy's ceiling, not his floor.

That's the thing. I don't want to swing for a Greg Ellis in the first. You want the guy you're drafting to have star potential and if he falls short and is a Greg Ellis then you can live with that.

 

[Smitty]

I'm just fine aiming for a Greg Ellis after a trade down. You can't expect every player selected in the first round to be an every year Pro Bowler. Sometimes getting a solid 10 year starter like Ellis is good. The guy had 84 sacks and is next to guys like Willie McGinest, Howie Long and Leonard Marshall on the all time pass rusher list, that is excellent when you really think about it.

You aren't aiming for that in the top 10, but in the 20s? Sign me up.

Of course you don't want to pick a lower ceiling guy when a higher ceiling guy is also there, but if I felt confident Greg Ellis was there at 25, he'd probably the best evaluated player left on the board at that point.

 

[Angrymesscan]

You could win in this league with a team of Greg Ellises...

 

[Clay_Allison]

I'm just fine aiming for a Greg Ellis after a trade down. You can't expect every player selected in the first round to be an every year Pro Bowler. Sometimes getting a solid 10 year starter like Ellis is good. The guy had 84 sacks and is next to guys like Willie McGinest, Howie Long and Leonard Marshall on the all time pass rusher list, that is excellent when you really think about it.

You aren't aiming for that in the top 10, but in the 20s? Sign me up.

Of course you don't want to pick a lower ceiling guy when a higher ceiling guy is also there, but if I felt confident Greg Ellis was there at 25, he'd probably the best evaluated player left on the board at that point.

Greg Ellis was a better prospect than Ealy. I have no idea why you think they are the same guy. In the best of all worlds Ealy could be that productive. On the other hand he could very easily be Robert Ayers.

 

[Smitty]

Greg Ellis was a better prospect than Ealy.

Coming out, people thought Greg Ellis would be more than what Greg Ellis turned out to be. We didn't draft a guy 8th overall thinking he would go to only 1 Pro Bowl in his career.

On the flip side, I would take a guy at 25 if I thought he would be an 84 sack player over the course of a 12 year career.

I have no idea why you think they are the same guy.

I don't think they are the same, but I would project Ealy's most likely career path to be a strong run defender and an 8 sack, ten year player.

In the best of all worlds Ealy could be that productive. On the other hand he could very easily be Robert Ayers.

You are underselling him tremendously and I don't know many people who would back up that opinion.

 

[NoDak]

Coming out, people thought Greg Ellis would be more than what Greg Ellis turned out to be. We didn't draft a guy 8th overall thinking he would go to only 1 Pro Bowl in his career.

Coming out, people weren't projecting him to have a major leg injury, either. When it happened, some people were saying he might never play again because of it.

 

[Smitty]

Coming out, people weren't projecting him to have a major leg injury, either. When it happened, some people were saying he might never play again because of it.

Sure. I'm just saying, if I can get a guy that gives me what Ellis gave me at 25, I'm fine with that. Clay said "Ellis was a much better prospect" but I'm simply delineating that what Ellis was when he came out doesn't change what he became.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Since 1999 4-3 DEs picked in the first round over 270 pounds and their career sacks:
Jason Pierre-Paul 29.5
Derrick Morgan 16.5
Jamaal Anderson 7.5
Robert Ayers 12
Will Smith 67.5
Kenechi Udeze 11
Michael Haynes 5.5
Charles Grant 47
Justin Smith* 82
Courtney Brown* 19
Shaun Ellis 73.5
Julius Peppers* 119
Mario Williams* 76.5
Patrick Kerney 82.5
Lamar King 12
*top 5 pick

So, outside of the top 5 picks we have a ton of busts and only 2 guys who approach Greg Ellis level production (the jury being out on one year wonder JPP, who doesn't compare to Ealy anyway).

 

[data]

I'm simply delineating that what Ellis was when he came out doesn't change what he became.

Did you let him off the hook?

 

[p1_]

what Ellis was when he came out doesn't change what he became.

Profound insight there.