Dak Watch Thread...

Simpleton

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No disagreement from me here. but I'm ranking QB's by where they are now, not in ten years.

The 2019 Baltimore offense was "unprecedented" because of Jackson, not the coaches. Yes they used him well, meaning they weren't the total idiots like we're used to having.

Hey, we have a dynamic QB, how about we run an option offense so defenses will be on their heels? No brainer.

It's how the man executed as a threat to run and pass that made the offense special.

If you are suggesting Harbaugh designed something that no one has seen before in the history of the game... really?

You always have the best takes on this site, hands down, Simp. But last year, Jackson was clearly the difference for the Ravens.
I don't really disagree with that at least as far as the regular season goes. I just can't rank him that high and above guys like Brees, Rodgers and so forth when I think his longevity, as tied to his ability to win primarily with his arm, is a pretty strong unknown even as soon as this season.

If we're just ranking 2019 QB performances then yes, he's top 3.

With that said, his playoff performances have been putrid where his inability to win with his arm was laid bare for all to see. Each of the two playoff games were significantly worse than Prescott's worst playoff game against the Rams where he was still generally solid.
 
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Cowboysrock55

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No disagreement from me here. but I'm ranking QB's by where they are now, not in ten years.
So if that's the criteria I assume you have guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers way down your list because they weren't very good last year. You can't have it both ways in my opinion.
 

ravidubey

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So if that's the criteria I assume you have guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers way down your list because they weren't very good last year. You can't have it both ways in my opinion.
I take either of those guys in a three game stretch for the title over anyone from 6-11 on that list.

Certainly not as good as Dak was last year. :art
If you say so. Switch the QBs and teams and I don't see Dak doing better. At all. Or Carson, Goff, etc.
 

NoDak

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If you say so. Switch the QBs and teams and I don't see Dak doing better. At all. Or Carson, Goff, etc.
I do say so. Because that is ACTUALLY what happened. Not the ol' "but if you switched them around" grasping at straws argument. Which is only a weak attempt at a spinout from somebody when they Just. Have. Nothing.
 
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ravidubey

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With that said, his playoff performances have been putrid where his inability to win with his arm was laid bare for all to see. Each of the two playoff games were significantly worse than Prescott's worst playoff game against the Rams where he was still generally solid.
It's definitely going to be that way more often with a team so focused on one player. Until the receiving corps on that team ups its game they are going to be easier to trip up.

Dallas's last few playoff games have featured multiple weapons combined with excellent OL play.

It's been a QB friendly gameplan though not very focused on the opposing teams weaknesses, unfortunately, while also lacking a playoff defense.
 

Texas Ace

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His running is what is special, so special that we really haven't seen anything like it ever aside from Vick. He had 38% as many rushing yards as passing, he ran for over 1200 yards and averaged nearly 7 YPC. He was 6th in the league in rushing yards, 23rd in attempts. That's absolutely ridiculous, both good and bad.

You want to put him in the elite QB category for that? Be my guest but I can guarantee you it will be short-lived.

As far as I can tell a QB has never ran the ball that many times in a season, do you think he can keep that up?

His passing numbers are impressive because they're extremely efficient, which is purely a function of how amazingly dynamic their running game was, largely due to him, coupled with how creative their offensive design in general was to give him easy throws/reads with defenses focused on the run. Not because he's some boffo passer who just carves up secondaries with 3 and 5-step drops like it's second nature while running for 100 yards a game.

But the real telling statistic that really exemplifies how heavily their passing game was built on the running game is his pass attempts.

401.

Even in Dak's rookie year he still threw the ball 459 times a game, which is significantly more if you look at average attempts per game.

Jackson's attempts per game, 26.73, ranked 40th in the league. The only legitimate starting QB last year with less attempts per game was Tannehill, who clearly was running a training wheels offense as they fed Henry 35 times a game.

The truly elite passing QB's, the ones who carry their offenses with their arm that you lust over when bitching about Dak, generally average around 35 attempts per game.

You know who is down in that range averaging around 27 attempts per game?

Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Jacoby Brissett, Case Keenum and a host of other career backup types. QB's like Tannehill, Garoppolo and Cousins are the only somewhat capable passers in that range, although they're obviously in purposefully run-heavy oriented offenses because their teams want to win with defense, the running game and QB's limiting mistakes. Game managers and bus drivers, or as you put it guys who aren't going to win in the playoffs.

Unless Jackson improves significantly as a passer his success last year will be a complete aberration, a fluke that will only last for as long as he can continue to put up historically rare rushing performances and continue to stay healthy while finishing top 10 in the league in rushing.

Long story short, you're lusting over a guy who wins with his legs first and second, and his arm third, and given how he's fallen flat on his face twice in a row in the playoffs it's astounding to me that you're so quick to put him on a pedestal with the literal best QB's in the league while throwing Dak under the bus for the exact same reason.
Outstanding post.

I totally agree.
 

ravidubey

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Long story short, you're lusting over a guy who wins with his legs first and second, and his arm third, and given how he's fallen flat on his face twice in a row in the playoffs it's astounding to me that you're so quick to put him on a pedestal with the literal best QB's in the league while throwing Dak under the bus for the exact same reason.
Wait, stop. Ranking Dak in tier three where the first two tiers are comprised by six people total is hardly throwing him under the bus.

I'm not "lusting" over Jackson, just saying he had an elite impact, is without a doubt trending up, and made the most of the limited offensive talent around him. No WRs, no top TE like Kittle or Kelce, and an aging Mark Ingram.

This whole exercise is about ranking QBs independent of their supporting casts. I'm not ranking the whole Dallas offense.

Michael Vick, an even more physically talented player than Jackson, during his whole career in Atlanta never made the impact Jackson did in Baltimore last year.

Do I think the template used by Jackson last year is conducive to a long career, probably not, but it depends. Randall Cunningham made plays with his legs and arm for years, but he always had WRs. Jackson did pretty well without any. What happens when he gets a few?

What leads me to believe Jackson can maintain is his huge improvement from years 1-2. The only thing I pointed out about Dak was he regressed from years 1-2 by comparison.

As for pass attempts per game, there have been games where Jackson has just not needed to throw it and they won anyways. He's young, and that inexperience hurt him in the playoffs in both seasons. I think Baltimore made a mistake playing him over Flacco in 2018's playoffs. IMO you go for it every year with your best shot, and dropping a rookie into the playoffs is stupid.

He had too many turnovers in the 2019 playoffs, and here IMO is where his lack of receiving options really hurt him.
 

p1_

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this is looking like other threads, but with different users.
 

boozeman

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No disagreement from me here. but I'm ranking QB's by where they are now, not in ten years.

The 2019 Baltimore offense was "unprecedented" because of Jackson, not the coaches. Yes they used him well, meaning they weren't the total idiots like we're used to having.

Hey, we have a dynamic QB, how about we run an option offense so defenses will be on their heels? No brainer.

It's how the man executed as a threat to run and pass that made the offense special.

If you are suggesting Harbaugh designed something that no one has seen before in the history of the game... really?

You always have the best takes on this site, hands down, Simp. But last year, Jackson was clearly the difference for the Ravens.
Jackson will be like RGIII once teams figure him and the scheme out.

Prescott is in that middle ground. I don't see him as a decade-type QB either. That is part of the problem.
 

jsmith6919

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Jackson will be like RGIII once teams figure him and the scheme out.
I think he'll end up injured in the next couple years and I don't see him doing much of anything just passing. Look at Cam who is built a lot bigger than him and even he couldn't last

Jackson is fun to watch right now tho
 

ravidubey

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Jackson will be like RGIII once teams figure him and the scheme out.

Prescott is in that middle ground. I don't see him as a decade-type QB either. That is part of the problem.
RG3 was too fragile. That's what it mainly hinges on for Jackson, if he can play smart and stay healthy.

From what I've seen, Jackson is alot faster than RG3 ever was and has his head screwed on much tighter than Michael Vick who had similar speed.

Supporting cast means everything and especially in the playoffs. You really have to have it all to win the big game most of the time.

I find it kind of stupid that Baltimore has no WRs and Washington could never develop the position either.

Meanwhile Prescott has already had the best supporting cast he's ever going to get in his career offensively, but the defense is just patchwork.

Dallas can never seem to land the linchpin defender they can build a team around. Came closest with Bosa in 2016.
 

ravidubey

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I think he'll end up injured in the next couple years and I don't see him doing much of anything just passing. Look at Cam who is built a lot bigger than him and even he couldn't last

Jackson is fun to watch right now tho
Cam was nowhere near as fast as any of these guys. At 6'5" and 250, he mainly bulled through people.

Just very different kinds of players. And Cam played a long time with that same style.

His team let him down by never developing the WR position after hitting the jackpot with Steve Smith. Newton and Smith only played three seasons together.

Panthers tried, but repeatedly failed there.

Again, it's impossible to dominate at the QB position for long without WRs to throw to.
 

P_T

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Cam was nowhere near as fast as any of these guys. At 6'5" and 250, he mainly bulled through people.

Just very different kinds of players. And Cam played a long time with that same style.

His team let him down by never developing the WR position after hitting the jackpot with Steve Smith. Newton and Smith only played three seasons together.

Panthers tried, but repeatedly failed there.

Again, it's impossible to dominate at the QB position for long without WRs to throw to.
He did have a fairly decent TE too.
 
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