Christians in Pakistan Killed

[Smitty]

Fuck no. Did you even read that? Do you understand things like logic and burden of proof? Is the lack of belief in trunk elephants a belief system? Jesus Herbert Christ.

Actually, yes, it is.

You want to be able to compartmentalize it into something scientific, but that's why faith and science don't see eye to eye, because they are not measuring the same way. By saying "I only believe something I can see evidence of" is by itself a belief about the nature of existence.

I respect Penn a lot and I see what he is saying, but its still his own belief system.

From the same article:

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Where's the evidence of that? He's admitting he doesn't have it. So that's his faith, that there is no god.

 

[superpunk]

What a pointless fucking thing to say.

How do we know anything is real, then? Take that solipsistic bullshit somewhere where the scientific method hasn't kept us from constantly dying of malaria and syphilis. (something we can't say for "faith")

 

[Hawkeye]

Actually, yes, it is.

You want to be able to compartmentalize it into something scientific, but that's why faith and science don't see eye to eye, because they are not measuring the same way. By saying "I only believe something I can see evidence of" is by itself a belief about the nature of existence.

I respect Penn a lot and I see what he is saying, but its still his own belief system.

From the same article:



Where's the evidence of that? He's admitting he doesn't have it. So that's his faith, that there is no god.

Atheism has been acknowledged in Canada as a religion and the assumption that all things must be subject to the limited tools of scientific inquiry is definitely a belief system.

When your sole measuring stick is the empirical scientific method you will be left without an explanation for a great many things in life, not just mystified by faith. How do you scientifically quantify the beauty of a sunset, the soul-feeding effect of hearing and enjoying good music, or the bond of close friendship between two people. Modern science still can't even explain how a two year old can talk or what love is. Yet these things are unassailable realities despite science having no good explanation for any of them.

Nothing wrong with science. It's a piece of the puzzle in fulfilling God's purpose for man on this planet which our species is doing (generally) well. It's just not the whole purpose for man.

Reminds me of the Pink Floyd song with the lyrics "And all that you touch and all that you see is all that your life will ever be"

If one is satisfied with just that then fine, enjoy, but some hunger for more and they shouldn't be criticized condescendingly for it by cranky agnostics and atheists. We can co-exist and respect the differences of each other. That's what a modern pluralistic culture does.

 

[superpunk]

"Man this sunset makes me feel good. I can see it, I like it."
"Me too."
"Eh, I see it but I don't like it."

"I talked to my imaginary friend this morning. It felt great. He also said if you don't believe in him he's going to burn you forever."
"Dude wtf"
"Get the straight jacket."

I'm playing chess while you're playing checkers. Or some game where the rules are constantly made up and noone but you can see the board. The hilarious thing about your argument is that religion does nothing to answer any of those questions either, apart from "oh teh good lord gived us this rainbow as a promise that he'd never brutally murder every last one of us again in a flood" (like the flowers an abusive husband gives his wife to assure her 'he's changed'). In fact every scientific discovery used to be something science "couldn't explain". But that lack of knowledge or surety drives progress, because we want to find out. Goddidit does no such thing. It stops thought, it stops progress. It is useless.

 

[Smitty]

What a pointless fucking thing to say.

Funny, I think that about most of what you have been saying in this thread.

 

[superpunk]

Nice one peewee herman.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Science doesn't have all the answers, ie, origins of life. Sadly though some people's religion is science. What's interesting is they can firmly believe one thing one day and then weeks, months or years later science makes a new discovery invalidating a previous truth/belief. Believing everything science claims now even though it may be refuted years later seems rather irrational.

 

[Smitty]

Nice one peewee herman.

You didn't give me a real answer addressing my points, I'm not going to give you one either.

 

[Smitty]

Science doesn't have all the answers, ie, origins of life. Sadly though some people's religion is science. What's interesting is they can firmly believe one thing one day and then weeks, months or years later science makes a new discovery invalidating a previous truth/belief. Believing everything science claims now even though it may be refuted years later seems rather irrational.

Science may some day be able to explain the origin of life.

What it can never explain is something that is decidedly supernatural and hidden from it. Yet some people want to pretend that lack of evidence of it, is proof that it doesn't exist. False.

As Penn admits in the bit I quoted from the article superpunk himself posted, believing that there is no God is a BELIEF without evidence itself.

Not believing in the (positive) existence of God is a different thing (that's atheism), and I admit, there is no scientific evidence of God, but conversely, there's no scientific evidence that he does not exist either.

For some, that is basis enough to NOT believe in God, and that's their right. But to believe (positively) that there IS NOT A GOD, is a belief with just as much scientific support.

Superpunk is finding this hard to accept because he is angered by the thought of people believing something different than him.

 

[superpunk]

It was more about the i know you are but what am I response.

 

[superpunk]

What it can never explain is something that is decidedly supernatural and hidden from it. Yet some people want to pretend that lack of evidence of it, is proof that it doesn't exist. False.

Yup. Never gonna be able to explain trunk elephants. Good thing we have geniuses like you to keep propagating that shit.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Science may some day be able to explain the origin of life.

If it does it'll find God.

 

[Smitty]

If it does it'll find God.

Not necessarily.

 

[Smitty]

Yup. Never gonna be able to explain trunk elephants. Good thing we have geniuses like you to keep propagating that shit.

Or Spaghetti Monsters.

And the belief that they don't exist is just that, a belief.

 

[superpunk]

It's all good. God's real, fuck Muslims, home for dinner.

 

[skidadl]

It's all good. God's real, fuck Muslims, home for dinner.

You can pretend that its all about hate and I really don't care if you do.

Lemme help you out with some facts:

1. Muslims bombed and killed people in a Christian church just because
2. Muslims have a mandate to convert the world to the religion
3. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world
4. Many estimate that 26% of the world population will be Muslim soon
5. America is becoming increasingly Muslim friendly (ironically)

Since you like facts - there you go. Any rational thinking person could look at the facts and see that Islam is growing. As that happens and lukewarm Christians sit on their hands and do nothing with their "faith" they will soon see their influence in the world continue to shrink. And rightfully so. I know that you think that this would be awesome, but just wait.

I know that some, including Smitty, thought that I meant that Muslims are going to kill all of us when I said that they are the biggest threat to the world as we know it. That is not what I meant. Any person with a brain can see that religion is the most powerful and influential force on the planet. It has certainly impacted our culture. So, if you are good with America changing, which I know you are, then close your eyes and continue to argue stupid points. You may very well get your wish ... Christianity will shrink and your descendants will be owned by Muslims and the government.

All of the asleep citizens will be like - naw man, that will never happen. Mmmkay let's pretend like all is well wit the world and that we will continue to live in our happy little bubble. The fact is, we live in a post-modern society. Look at world history because that is what we are about to be - history. Truthfully, nobody cares though because our country is largely numb and apathetic. There is no doubt that we are going to change. How that change takes place is really up to us, but that's a little hard to influence if nobody give a crap.

Again, I have no doubt that you are gonna try to insult and hurl BS. We are in this country together, so you can chose to make life worse or better.

 

[Smitty]

It's all good. God's real, fuck Muslims, home for dinner.

I'm with you on the Muslim thing. Skid's off base.

 

[skidadl]

I'm with you on the Muslim thing. Skid's off base.

Help me out here. Where did I miss the mark in my post?

 

[Smitty]

Any person with a brain can see that religion is the most powerful and influential force on the planet.

Also false.

It has certainly impacted our culture. So, if you are good with America changing, which I know you are, then close your eyes and continue to argue stupid points. You may very well get your wish ... Christianity will shrink and your descendants will be owned by Muslims and the government.

If Christianity is shrinking, Islam won't be far behind it.

As a Christian, I am offended by the notion that Islamists are more resistant to the factors that would deter people from being religious than Christians are. IMO it's Christian alarm at watching the effects of industrialization wreck havoc on the modern church.

But the same thing is gonna happen to Muslims; in fact, their entire terror movement is a direct result of that same fear.

The conceptualization that Islam is currently growing and Christianity is currently shrinking may be true, but it's also remarkably ignorant of the reasons those two things are happening. 1) Christianity is experiencing industrialization at much more widespread rates, and 2) Islamo countries are still mostly in the stone age so they are having babies at higher rates because that's what stone age countries do.

All of the asleep citizens will be like - naw man, that will never happen. Mmmkay let's pretend like all is well wit the world and that we will continue to live in our happy little bubble. The fact is, we live in a post-modern society. Look at world history because that is what we are about to be - history. Truthfully, nobody cares though because our country is largely numb and apathetic. There is no doubt that we are going to change. How that change takes place is really up to us, but that's a little hard to influence if nobody give a crap.

Not sure what you can do about it. Be a beacon for God's message by living your life the right way and be willing to share the message when and where you can. That message is never gonna be able to single handedly stem the tide of the temptations that are all around us.

 

[Smitty]

Help me out here. Where did I miss the mark in my post?

Islam is not a "threat" to us as such. If Islam's numbers are increasing it is due to the unavoidable and unchangeable nature of population growth and decline on our planet right now.

And yet it will mellow out the more it comes into contact with the inevitable charm of westernization (which is really liberalization -- and I use that term to mean economic and political development, not the left-leaning half of the US current political spectrum) just like every society does.