2024 POTUS Thread...

[Sheik]

Fiscally, though, the problem with tariffs is that they serve as a defacto tax increase as it raises the costs for that good or service. And, if those goods or services aren't produced in the U.S., then they accomplish nothing other than price increases, which we've seen over the last 5-6 years.
What Is A Tariff, Who Pays And What Are The Impacts? | Investor's Business Daily (investors.com)

If I had to choose between a tariff and a regulation, I choose tariffs.

Both ultimately increase the price of goods, but at least one of them doesn’t incentivize American jobs being shipped out of the country.

 

[Cotton]

To quote an austere scholar:

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Please explain how.

The latter actually happens. The former.... creates uncomfortable sound bytes?

Trump called Putin a genius for invading Ukraine and complimented Xi Jinping for ruling China with an iron fist. He's made multiples statements like this publicly. Were none of you listening or bothered by that?

 

[Smitty]

ONLY because people were in just the right places at the time to keep it from happening.

The country won't be so lucky this next time 'round should it come to that.

That said, we are fucked in the ass with Biden... so either way.

You mean the entire Senate and Congress and Court system?

And dude, frankly.... no. He didn't even TRY to do any of those things requiring people to stop him.

So.... wrong again.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

If I had to choose between a tariff and a regulation, I choose tariffs.

Both ultimately increase the price of goods, but at least one of them doesn’t incentivize American jobs being shipped out of the country.

Absolutely. I would choose a tariff 100 times out of 100 choices if it was between that and a tax with regulation. No doubt about it. The problem that the U.S. has is that the regulations on goods and services haven't been reduced or eliminated, so the dependency on the imports still exists, so the innovation and production incentive is still hampered, because neither political party has the guts to do anything about it.

 

[Smitty]

Trump called Putin a genius for invading Ukraine and complimented Xi Jinping for ruling China with an iron fist. He's made multiples statements like this publicly. Were none of you listening or bothered by that?

I'm not bothered by the stupid shit Trump says on a macro level.

There is zero evidence he wants to be like them. Actually, there is positive evidence he wants the opposite.

The basis for the dumb shit he says about those countries is to try to butter them up because he thinks that's how you win people over and make deals.

It's stupid but ultimately harmless.

 

[Sheik]

How many months do I have to convince Plan9 to vote for Trump?

I think I could do it.

 

[Cujo]

Fiscally, though, the problem with tariffs is that they serve as a defacto tax increase as it raises the costs for that good or service. And, if those goods or services aren't produced in the U.S., then they accomplish nothing other than price increases, which we've seen over the last 5-6 years.
What Is A Tariff, Who Pays And What Are The Impacts? | Investor's Business Daily (investors.com)

I agree with that but if the broader objective is to prevent them from making so much money off of us without us benefitting in any way, then there will be unattractive trade-offs. In the long run, it will be to our benefit if we can prevent them from becoming so economically powerful.

 

[Smitty]

Fiscally, though, the problem with tariffs is that they serve as a defacto tax increase as it raises the costs for that good or service. And, if those goods or services aren't produced in the U.S., then they accomplish nothing other than price increases, which we've seen over the last 5-6 years.
What Is A Tariff, Who Pays And What Are The Impacts? | Investor's Business Daily (investors.com)

Fair.

Trump is a populist, not a fiscal conservative.

But it's just wacky to say they are the same. They are not.

I get it that many of the policies espoused by the Republican party merely delay our crash instead of prevent it, so I understand this to a degree, but the Dems are so far down the path of socialism that you cannot say they are the same.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

To quote an austere scholar:

I thought I was a South American Drug Lord. Now I'm an Islamic Terrorist?

 

[Plan9Misfit]

I'm not bothered by the stupid shit Trump says on a macro level.

There is zero evidence he wants to be like them. Actually, there is positive evidence he wants the opposite.

The basis for the dumb shit he says about those countries is to try to butter them up because he thinks that's how you win people over and make deals.

It's stupid but ultimately harmless.

You may be 100% correct, but I don't trust politicians at all. I don't believe that any politician - at any level - works for the betterment of their constituents. Rather, they only work to create and grow their own power. I'll never trust them, nor will I ever believe that they place limits on that they'll do to gain more power. Politicians are public prostitutes, and they'll sell their souls to the highest bidders.

 

[Smitty]

Absolutely. I would choose a tariff 100 times out of 100 choices if it was between that and a tax with regulation. No doubt about it. The problem that the U.S. has is that the regulations on goods and services haven't been reduced or eliminated, so the dependency on the imports still exists, so the innovation and production incentive is still hampered, because neither political party has the guts to do anything about it.

Trump dramatically reduced regulations while he was in office.

Not just a little.

A ton.

It's one of the reasons the Dems hate him so much. He DRAMATICALLY scaled back the regulatory apparatus.

Again, I understand he's not perfect, but there's no comparison.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

How many months do I have to convince Plan9 to vote for Trump?

I think I could do it.

As of right now, my vote is going to Chase Oliver. I'll never vote for Trump because of his tax plan. My taxes went up by over $20,000 a year because of the cap on deductions. I refuse to support anyone who steals my money.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

Trump dramatically reduced regulations while he was in office.

Not just a little.

A ton.

It's one of the reasons the Dems hate him so much. He DRAMATICALLY scaled back the regulatory apparatus.

Again, I understand he's not perfect, but there's no comparison.

The regulations he (rightfully) eliminated had very little impact on U.S. production. That was part of the problem. We need to further reduce the coal and steel regulations to grow that base back, but we haven't done it at a level which will help spur price reductions. And that's Congress's fault, not Trump's.

 

[Smitty]

You may be 100% correct, but I don't trust politicians at all. I don't believe that any politician - at any level - works for the betterment of their constituents. Rather, they only work to create and grow their own power. I'll never trust them, nor will I ever believe that they place limits on that they'll do to gain more power. Politicians are public prostitutes, and they'll sell their souls to the highest bidders.

And generally speaking this is all true.

Look, I'll vote for Rand Paul if he runs. I'll "throw away," my vote on him, even.

But Trump isn't George W. Bush, either. He's not a Neocon.

He's a populist, and that carries it's own set of anti-fiscally conservative problems, but unless I'm saying I'll never vote for a Republican again, Trump actually did deliver on many of the conservative-sided things he promised. I didn't vote for him the first time, but he delivered on a lot, and I felt he earned my vote the second time. And that earns him the benefit of the doubt this time, in my book.

The "kissing up to Putin," thing is silly. It's irrelevant and he actually, policy wise, stood up to Putin, NK, and the Middle East way more than Biden has.

 

[Sheik]

As of right now, my vote is going to Chase Oliver. I'll never vote for Trump because of his tax plan. My taxes went up by over $20,000 a year because of the cap on deductions. I refuse to support anyone who steals my money.

I wonder if we’re paying around $20k a year more when we add up the increase in food, gas and energy. Has to be close to that.

Am I right, bud? Wanna come over for the 4th and watch the debate replay?

 

[Smitty]

As of right now, my vote is going to Chase Oliver. I'll never vote for Trump because of his tax plan. My taxes went up by over $20,000 a year because of the cap on deductions. I refuse to support anyone who steals my money.

It was a cap on what again? Mortgage interest deduction? This could be relevant to me cause I just bought a house.

 

[Cotton]

Trump is a populist, not a fiscal conservative.

Big facts.

 

[Cotton]

I thought I was a South American Drug Lord. Now I'm an Islamic Terrorist?

I was hoping someone would get that.

 

[Plan9Misfit]

It was a cap on what again? Mortgage interest deduction? This could be relevant to me cause I just bought a house.

Yep. SALT (State and Local Taxes) cap. It's really bad. It didn't impact my house in McKinney at all, but hit HARD on my house in Los Angeles. My refund is literally $23,000 a year less than what it would be without that cap. It's really painful.