2023 Season | Super Bowl LVIII 49ers @ Chiefs| Gameday Chatter Thread | 2/11/2024

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Genghis Khan

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Those 70's Cowboys were sandwiched between a 60's group that competed for titles but couldn't quite get there and an 80's group that lost three straight NFCC's. They had 20 consecutive winning seasons. Dude, that defines the term dynastic.

More dynastic than the Steelers who were only competitive over eight straight playoff seasons from 1972-1979.

4 championships over 2. GSM.

Longevity is a factor in these things, but championships HAVE TO matter more.

Otherwise you are letting in a whole lot of nonsense like the 70s Vikings or 80s Broncos or 90s Bills.

It has to be a combination of both but you have to have the championships first and foremost.
 

ravidubey

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Genghis, you're talking about something subtly different than the definitions in the list.

From the net: In sports, a dynasty is a team or individual that dominates their sport or league for an extended length of time.

They aren't talking about who was the most dominant team over a stretch of three or four seasons, but what was the most effective dynasty-- a period of continuity. Who won more games, for the longest time while competing at the top of the mountain.

Reid's Chiefs - Landry's Cowboys - Montana-Young's 49ers

It's more than just championships, but rather a measure of sustained excellence that results in championships. The championships themselves are key, but so is the longevity and excellence over time.

Landry's Cowboys "only" won two championships, but they competed in 11 NFCC's from 1966-1982-- that's insane.
 

bbgun

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Dude, that defines the term dynastic.
Disagree. To me, a dynasty is a team that wins multiple championships (3+) in a short period of time with basically the same players. You're putting your thumb on the scale when you include the early 80's teams under Landry.
 

ravidubey

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Disagree. To me, a dynasty is a team that wins multiple championships (3+) in a short period of time with basically the same players. You're putting your thumb on the scale when you include the early 80's teams under Landry.
You have to, IMO, when you are judging Landry's Cowboys. He went to the Superbowl with two different QB's and and competed in the NFCC with four QB's over a stretch of two decades where you have teams with overlapping rosters. Many of Meredith and Morton's players carried over under Staubach and likewise Staubach's players competed under White into the 80's.

That's a dynasty, excellence over time with some thread of continuity from year to year. You couldn't for example include the Steelers with Roethlisberger and Bradshaw because nothing links them together.

By your definition you can't then include both Montana and Young with the 49ers because there is zero continuity, all but no players or coaches, between the 1981 and 1994 teams. Is that both thumbs on the scale? But when you consider there were several overlapping players like Jerry Rice and Randy Cross between both QB's it makes sense.

I agree you can choose to define it different ways, and it's subjective.

It's clear the writer of that article chose to define his own (Landry, Montana-Young, 1940's, etc). I'm trying to rank within his own definitions
 
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bbgun

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He went to the Superbowl with two different QB's and and competed in the NFCC with three QB's over a stretch of two decades where you have teams with overlapping rosters
Gibbs won three SBs with three different QBs and no one considers them a dynasty.

By your definition you can't then include both Montana and Young with the 49ers because there is zero continuity
The 1980s Niners, I certainly do. Montana won all four, Walsh three of them, and important guys from the first championship were still on the team when they beat the Broncos (Cross, Wright, Lott, Turner, etc.)
 

Genghis Khan

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Genghis, you're talking about something subtly different than the definitions in the list.

From the net: In sports, a dynasty is a team or individual that dominates their sport or league for an extended length of time.

They aren't talking about who was the most dominant team over a stretch of three or four seasons, but what was the most effective dynasty-- a period of continuity. Who won more games, for the longest time while competing at the top of the mountain.

Reid's Chiefs - Landry's Cowboys - Montana-Young's 49ers

It's more than just championships, but rather a measure of sustained excellence that results in championships. The championships themselves are key, but so is the longevity and excellence over time.

Landry's Cowboys "only" won two championships, but they competed in 11 NFCC's from 1966-1982-- that's insane.

I don't care about the list's definition, I care about what the already accepted definition should be. They don't get to redefine terms or move the goal posts.

And as I showed, it's selective if you ding Dallas for only having a 5 year run but not KC for only having a 5 year run or Pittsburgh for only 6 years.

It's an inconsistent application and I'm never going to buy it.
 

Genghis Khan

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The 1980s Niners, I certainly do. Montana won all four, Walsh three of them, and important guys from the first championship were still on the team when they beat the Broncos (Cross, Wright, Lott, Turner, etc.)

Yeah, I think generally there's usually a big emphasis on HC/QB. Preferably both, but I think there's some leeway so SF is still the same dynasty in 89 under Seifert since Montana is still there and it was a back to back.

5 years later in 94 though with a different QB AND the HC changed?

That's too much of a stretch. I would guess not a single player or even the HC remained from the original 81 team (Lott maybe?)

That's not part of the same dynasty.
 

bbgun

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Yeah, I think generally there's usually a big emphasis on HC/QB.
Which is why I have trouble with Brady/Belichick. They were there for all of them, but many years went by between championships. We need to distinguish between dynasties and "winning organizations" or "flagship teams."
 

Genghis Khan

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Which is why I have trouble with Brady/Belichick. They were there for all of them, but many years went by between championships. We need to distinguish between dynasties and "winning organizations" or "flagship teams."

I think the fact that Brady and Belichick were both there saves it as 1 big dynasty. Especially the fact that they were on the brink of winning the super bowl almost every year in between, it's not like they had a run, bottomed out then had another run.

Similar to the 70s Cowboys where you have basically the same coach and QB throughout and even though most of the players changed by the end of the run, they were more or less competitive for the championship just about every year.

I can see it either way though.
 

data

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2023 Chiefs defense never allowed 28 or more points in a single game this season. 21 games. Most in NFL history (although there are more games now)

The 2000 Ravens and 2002 Buccaneers were at 19 games.
 

data

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40s Bears
50s Browns
30s Packers

The first three are completely irrelevant to today's game (would anyone say, "yeah the 50s Yankees were good but they were nothing compared to the 1879 Red Legs"? Of course not, it's absurd.)
Absurd? Irrelevant? Genghis?
 

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Since it’s received the most criticism, to clarify, the author considered Raiders’ dynasty to be 1967-1977, not just the 1970s

1967: Lost SB II
1968: Lost AFL championship
1969: Lost AFL championship (Madden’s 1st yr)
1970: Lost AFC championship
1971: 8-4-2, missed playoffs
1972: Lost Divisional
1973: Lost AFC championship (Stabler takes over for Lamonica)
1974: Lost AFC championship
1975: Lost AFC championship
1976: Won SB XI
1977: Lost AFC championship
 

Genghis Khan

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even in your worst state, your big historical brain makes us small. 1879 Red Legs

Except I was historically inaccurate now that I google it. They briefly changed their name in the 1950s to the Redlegs, but were the Red Stockings in the 1800s.
 

NoDak

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Since it’s received the most criticism, to clarify, the author considered Raiders’ dynasty to be 1967-1977, not just the 1970s

1967: Lost SB II
1968: Lost AFL championship
1969: Lost AFL championship (Madden’s 1st yr)
1970: Lost AFC championship
1971: 8-4-2, missed playoffs
1972: Lost Divisional
1973: Lost AFC championship (Stabler takes over for Lamonica)
1974: Lost AFC championship
1975: Lost AFC championship
1976: Won SB XI
1977: Lost AFC championship
Meh. They had one championship in there. Were they a good team? Sure. But they weren't all timer dynasty by a long shot. If they were, then the Buffalo Bills need to be considered. And nobody thinks they were a dynasty.
 

Genghis Khan

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Since it’s received the most criticism, to clarify, the author considered Raiders’ dynasty to be 1967-1977, not just the 1970s

1967: Lost SB II
1968: Lost AFL championship
1969: Lost AFL championship (Madden’s 1st yr)
1970: Lost AFC championship
1971: 8-4-2, missed playoffs
1972: Lost Divisional
1973: Lost AFC championship (Stabler takes over for Lamonica)
1974: Lost AFC championship
1975: Lost AFC championship
1976: Won SB XI
1977: Lost AFC championship

That's a great run but not a dynasty when there's only 1 championship.
 

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Dynasty is different from reign or era. My definition of dynasty is more players continuity than coach.

49ers Montana dynasty ends 1990 whereas the 49ers reign lasted until Mariucci’s late 90s
 

boozeman

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Dynasty is different from reign or era. My definition of dynasty is more players continuity than coach.

49ers Montana dynasty ends 1990 whereas the 49ers reign lasted until Mariucci’s late 90s
Then you are biased and also scarred.

You need to leave that shithole, Phil.
 

data

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Dynasties generally cannot overlap, either.

There is 70s Steelers. No 70s Cowboys dynasty.
 
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