2020 Season | Week 16 | Gameday Chatter Thread | Eagles @ Cowboys | 12/26/2020

[p1_]

 

[Genghis Khan]

5.8 YPC against the 49ers in his lone start.

Also had a good amount of scrimmage yards. 133 scrimmage yards I think.

Outside of his 1 long run, 2.45 ypc against SF. That's putrid. I actually gave him too much credit.

 

[Simpleton]

Even though Pollard didn't run well most of the SF game he had a strong game overall considering his receiving ability and of course the game clincher.

Whether or not he was great on 2nd and 8 with 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter doesn't change the perception and attention he got after that game, which I think definitely motivated Elliott.

I'm sure part of it was him healing up a bit too, but either way I hope it continues into next year. I don't expect to see 2016 Elliott ever again but if he can give us 1200 yards on 280 carries while splitting time with Pollard and being one of the best short yardage backs in the league, I'll take it.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Pollard was pretty good as a receiver but he can do that anytime with or without zeke; that's not what would replace Zeke. So I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Outside of his 1 long run, 2.45 ypc against SF. That's putrid. I actually gave him too much credit.

I've never agreed with the thought that you should not count a players big plays. Overall it was a good game. But don't take that as me thinking Pollard is some sort of a lead back. I think 12 carries a game is probably the most he should be getting. Mixed in with a number of catch opportunities like he did against the 49ers.

Should we look at Coopers game against the Eagles and take away his long catch and say he had a shit day? Of course not, that would seem silly. Not sure why we would do that with a RB who only got 12 carries and was able to bust one of them for a big play.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I've never agreed with the thought that you should not count a players big plays. Overall it was a good game. But don't take that as me thinking Pollard is some sort of a lead back. I think 12 carries a game is probably the most he should be getting. Mixed in with a number of catch opportunities like he did against the 49ers.

Should we look at Coopers game against the Eagles and take away his long catch and say he had a shit day? Of course not, that would seem silly. Not sure why we would do that with a RB who only got 12 carries and was able to bust one of them for a big play.

A RBs production versus a WRs production is massively different and it's silly to compare them. (Just as an example, a starting RB will generally touch the ball 5 times more often than a starting WR. It just doesn't tell you anything to compare them.)

It's not that you shouldn't count big plays, but that 1 big play doesn't erase the importance of his other 11 carries. Those other carries matter too, and overall they weren't good.

His overall 5.8 ypc doesn't remotely accurately reflect what you got from him for most of the game. The 2.45 is much, much closer to the reality of his production. This is why it makes sense to look at it without the 1 or 2 outliers, so you can get a true sense of his production. That one run doesn't help you on your other 10 drives of the game.

A RB who hits one long one and 11 one or two yarders isn't all that useful as a runner.

 

[NoDak]

5.8 YPC against the 49ers in his lone start.

Also had a good amount of scrimmage yards. 133 scrimmage yards I think.

One big run where there were missed tackles can really boost an otherwise meh rushing performance. Not sure of the exact numbers without looking them up, but I'd bet his YPC was around 3 before that.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Don't get me wrong, I do think Pollard is useful, but on a part time basis in very specific types of runs where you can get him in space. Plus as a receiver.

It's just that he's not a starter, and there's nothing he did in SF that should have a guy like Elliott even raise an eyebrow about his future.

 

[NoDak]

Outside of his 1 long run, 2.45 ypc against SF. That's putrid. I actually gave him too much credit.

Thanks for the stat look up/time stamp.

 

[Genghis Khan]

One big run where there were missed tackles can really boost an otherwise meh rushing performance. Not sure of the exact numbers without looking them up, but I'd bet his YPC was around 3 before that.

Correct, and it was actually well under 3.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

A RBs production versus a WRs production is massively different and it's silly to compare them. (Just as an example, a starting RB will generally touch the ball 5 times more often than a starting WR. It just doesn't tell you anything to compare them.)

It's not that you shouldn't count big plays, but that 1 big play doesn't erase the importance of his other 11 carries. Those other carries matter too, and overall they weren't good.

His overall 5.8 ypc doesn't remotely accurately reflect what you got from him for most of the game. The 2.45 is much, much closer to the reality of his production. This is why it makes sense to look at it without the 1 or 2 outliers, so you can get a true sense of his production. That one run doesn't help you on your other 10 drives of the game.

A RB who hits one long one and 11 one or two yarders isn't all that useful as a runner.

I'm willing to bet if you take out most RB's long runs they will average 3-4 ypc. Again, if you start picking and chosing stats that you should count or shouldn't count it's just manipulating what a guy did. Would I rather my runningback get 5 yard on every single carry of course not. Some carries are going to go for only one or two yards. Some carries are going to go for more yards.

Again, it was a good game. Our blocking was awful for most of it. Hell our blocking was awful against the Eagles too until we finally started seeing some holes in the second half. We aren't a good run blocking team for the most part.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Correct, and it was actually well under 3.

Your math sucks. It was 2.63 to be exact. He ended with 12 carries for 69 yards. Take out the 40 yard run and it was 11 carries for 29 yards. But again, I think it's silly to take out a guys best run when he only had 12 carries in the first place.

 

[NoDak]

I'm willing to bet if you take out most RB's long runs they will average 3-4 ypc.

Probably.

But Pollard didn't even get that. It was well under 3. And that's all we're saying.

Again, it was a good game. Our blocking was awful for most of it. Hell our blocking was awful against the Eagles too

Yep. And Zeke managed 5.5 YPC with that awful blocking while Pollard had around 2.

 

[Cotton]

So, if a RB gets 2 runs of over 30 yards, do you take them both out to consider YPC?

 

[NoDak]

So, if a RB gets 2 runs of over 30 yards, do you take them both out to consider YPC?

Of course not. But it still helps to see what you will be getting the majority of the time with a RB.

We all can see that Zeke isn't breaking long runs this year. So he really can't rely on them to boost his avg. Yet his YPC is still around 4. Certainly not what we want, but not absolutely horrible, either.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yep. And Zeke managed 5.5 YPC with that awful blocking while Pollard had around 2.

Did you remember to take Zeke's longest run out for those stats though? Clearly his 31 yard run shouldn't count. Hell it's one of his longest of the season.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Of course not. But it still helps to see what you will be getting the majority of the time with a RB.

We all can see that Zeke isn't breaking long runs this year. So he really can't rely on them to boost his avg. Yet his YPC is still around 4. Certainly not what we want, but not absolutely horrible, either.

Yes Zeke's average this season is 4.1 ypc. Pollards is 4.4 ypc over the entire season. Those stats are a fair depiction. And no that doesn't mean we should dump Zeke and make Pollard a workhorse. Your backup RB should have a higher YPC than your workhorse. It just goes to show that a backfield share is exactly where both guys should be. Hopefully with a better O-line and less fumbles next year.

 

[NoDak]

Did you remember to take Zeke's longest run out for those stats though? Clearly his 31 yard run shouldn't count. Hell it's one of his longest of the season.

Without that run, he avg'd 4.17 YPC. I'd say that's significantly better than the 2.whatever of Pollard's, wouldn't you? Not quite the gotcha you were expecting, aye?

Pollard avg'd 1.3 YPC that game, btw... Wonder what his avg would be if we took out his longest run? ;)

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Without that run, he avg'd 4.17 YPC. I'd say that's significantly better than the 2.whatever of Pollard's, wouldn't you?

No but 18 carries for 74 yards isn't a good game either. My point was never that Zeke didn't have a good game against the Eagles. He absolutely did.

I'm just shocked that people don't think a RB who goes 12 carries for 69 yards and 6 catches for 63 yards isn't somehow a good game. You're talking 18 touches for 131 yards. I would think by anyone's measure that would be a good game. Nothing more and nothing less. My only point in all of this was that Pollard having a good game against the 49ers maybe motivated Zeke to have a good game against the Eagles. Maybe it had no impact. But Zeke had his best game all year against the Eagles for whatever reason.

Hell, Pollard was our most productive player against the 49ers.

 

[NoDak]

No but 18 carries for 74 yards isn't a good game either. My point was never that Zeke didn't have a good game against the Eagles. He absolutely did.

I'm just shocked that people don't think a RB who goes 12 carries for 69 yards and 6 catches for 63 yards isn't somehow a good game. You're talking 18 touches for 131 yards. I would think by anyone's measure that would be a good game. Nothing more and nothing less. My only point in all of this was that Pollard having a good game against the 49ers maybe motivated Zeke to have a good game against the Eagles. Maybe it had no impact. But Zeke had his best game all year against the Eagles for whatever reason.

Hell, Pollard was our most productive player against the 49ers.

I don't think anybody has ever said Pollard didn't have a good game. Only that he's not nearly as good as some people are carrying on about. And that he shouldn't be the lead back, as others have said. He is a good RB for what we use him for. Hell, we should use him more consistently than we do.