2020 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread...

[NoDak]

Dilfer didn't get on a hot run, he was dragged while nearly comatose by an all timer defense.

Same with Brad Johnson and the Buccaneer defense. And Joe Flacco with Baltimore. And Mark Rypien with Washington.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

He got on a hot run like Dilfer and Hostetler.

And Joey Flacco?

 

[bbgun]

And Joey Flacco?

We're talking about Foles, a backup who took over late in a season. Ditto Dilfer and Hostetler. Guys like Flacco and Rypien were starters from Day 1.

 

[NoDak]

We're talking about Foles, a backup who took over late in a season. Ditto Dilfer and Hostetler. Guys like Flacco and Rypien were starters from Day 1.

They were still meh QB's that won a superbowl with a strong team around them. And that was the point.

 

[bbgun]

They were still meh QB's that won a superbowl with a strong team around them. And that was the point.

Rypien was a little better than meh. He was the league MVP that season. And Foles was a second round pick who finally fulfilled his potential. He just can't replicate it outside of Philly.

 

[NoDak]

Mark Rypien caught lightning in a bottle with the help from a very, very good team and coach. He was pretty meh otherwise. And where Foles was drafted has zero to do with him as a player. He is the epitome of meh.

Unless of course, we should be saying guys like purple drank and Ryan Leaf are better than they are given credit for. After all, they were drafted very high.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Rypien was a little better than meh. He was the league MVP that season. And Foles was a second round pick who finally fulfilled his potential. He just can't replicate it outside of Philly.

Foles was a 3rd rounder. For a QB, that's not someone you'd expect to have much potential to fulfill.

Foles has sucked most of his career. He magically had 3 or 4 good games out of nowhere.

Doesn't that just scream coaching?

 

[Genghis Khan]

 

[bbgun]

Foles was a 3rd rounder. For a QB, that's not someone you'd expect to have much potential to fulfill.

Must've been thinking of Brees. The point is, the higher you draft a QB, the better your chances for winning a championship. Outside of Brady (the ultimate outlier), who's the last QB drafted in the 4th round or later to win it all?

Foles has sucked most of his career. He magically had 3 or 4 good games out of nowhere.

I admitted he stinks outside of Philly.

Doesn't that just scream coaching?

He played well for Chip Kelly, who most consider a boob.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Oh well sometimes when someone wants to make a point about a quarterback the SB is the gauge then again when someone wants to detract from a QB the gauge is they never won a SB. It’s a tool of convenience to make whatever point suits your fancy.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Must've been thinking of Brees. The point is, the higher you draft a QB, the better your chances for winning a championship. Outside of Brady (the ultimate outlier), who's the last QB drafted in the 4th round or later to win it all.

Kurt Warner? Brad Johnson?

I always love when people artificially draw a line at fourth round simply because Dak was a fourth and there are a bunch of third round Superbowl winning QBs. There is no causation between the round a guy is drafted in and his ability to win a Superbowl.

 

[data]

Oh well sometimes when someone wants to make a point about a quarterback the SB is the gauge then again when someone wants to detract from a QB the gauge is they never won a SB. It’s a tool of convenience to make whatever point suits your fancy.

One SB lightning in bottle fluke, sure, but QBs with multiple SB appearances is a surprisingly pretty consistent gauge with the greatest modern QBs of all-time. I wouldn’t use SB appearances as my one and only factor, but looking at the list off top of my head, it’s not too shabby. Maybe it’s more cause and effect, chicken or egg?

What QBs considered greatest all time conversations had one or less SB appearances. Probably Young, Marino, Rodgers and Brees are only exceptions. Not too bad.

Brady, Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Staubach, Aikman, Favre, Peyton Manning, Warner, Starr, Tarkenton, etc. all had multiple.

QBs with multiple SB appearances probably shows better than career QB Rating or QBs with most passing yards.

On flip side, Plunkett, Russell, Wilson and Eli are probably only multiple SB quarterbacks that don’t belong anywhere on a Top 10 all-time list.

 

[Texas Ace]

Dilfer didn't get on a hot run, he was dragged while nearly comatose by an all timer defense.

Of all the "If this QB can win one...." references people make, this is the one I dislike the most.

Like you said, he didn't get hot or play the best ball of his career. He played like his typical self.

He won because for as average as he was, he had the benefit of leaning on a defense that wasn't great, it was arguably the greatest defense ever.

It's basically the 2000 Ravens and 85 Bears in that conversation.

There is no blueprint for putting something like that together so it would be a very flawed strategy to try and replicate it.

 

[L.T. Fan]

One SB lightning in bottle fluke, sure, but QBs with multiple SB appearances is a surprisingly pretty consistent gauge with the greatest modern QBs of all-time. I wouldn’t use SB appearances as my one and only factor, but looking at the list off top of my head, it’s not too shabby. Maybe it’s more cause and effect, chicken or egg?

What QBs considered greatest all time conversations had one or less SB appearances. Probably Young, Marino, Rodgers and Brees are only exceptions. Not too bad.

Brady, Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, Staubach, Aikman, Favre, Peyton Manning, Warner, Starr, Tarkenton, etc. all had multiple.

QBs with multiple SB appearances probably shows better than career QB Rating or QBs with most passing yards.

On flip side, Plunkett, Russell, Wilson and Eli are probably only multiple SB quarterbacks that don’t belong anywhere on a Top 10 all-time list.

I have never nor will I ever use Super Bowls as a basis for a Quarterback measuring stick. The Lombardy Trophy is a team trophy.

 

[data]

I have never nor will I ever use Super Bowls as a basis for a Quarterback measuring stick. The Lombardy Trophy is a team trophy.

That’s fine. Just noting the coincidental or not similarities of generally regarded all-time top QBs with the list of QBs with multiple SB appearances.

What’s your Top 10 or so QBs (Super Bowl era) of all-time? Does your list show a strong or weak similarity?

I’m not even asking for your criteria. I’m curious if you have names listed that younger fans wouldn’t like Len Dawson or Bob Griese.

 

[L.T. Fan]

That’s fine. Just noting the coincidental or not similarities of generally regarded all-time top QBs with the list of QBs with multiple SB appearances.

What’s your Top 10 or so QBs (Super Bowl era) of all-time? Does your list show a strong or weak similarity?

I’m not even asking for your criteria. I’m curious if you have names listed that younger fans wouldn’t like Len Dawson or Bob Griese.

I don’t want to make a research project but a couple names comes to mind immediately. Jim Hart and Dan Marino. For me to pick the top 10 would entail a research project but I’m sure somone has done this already. I just am not inclined to take the time to create my preferences. There are a lot of very good quarterbacks that didn’t get there.

 

[Texas Ace]

Same with Brad Johnson and the Buccaneer defense. And Joe Flacco with Baltimore. And Mark Rypien with Washington.

I get your point, but I don't think those guys fit the same criteria that Dilfer does.

Rypien was pretty much a one year wonder, but it was a damn good 1 year and the 91 Redskins offense was one of the most potent of the decade.

Brad Johnson was at least a good player for a spell and he actually helped that 2002 Bucs team win the SB that year. He actually made the pro bowl that season and had a very respectable stat line for the year.

Flacco got hot as hell. He had one of the greatest post season runs for a QB ever. So while his career has mostly been average, he definitely did his part in that title run.

Dilfer was just awful and was nothing more than a passenger for that 2000 Ravens title. Unlike the aforementioned QBs, Dilfer did absolutely nothing to help that team win.

 

[data]

Fact is, you don’t need an all-timer to get to the Super Bowl. Is Dak good enough to get there? Yes.

The question is if the team around Dak good enough to get us to the Super Bowl? Likewise, is Dak good enough to take this team, not as good as 85 Bears or 00 Ravens, to the Super Bowl?

I think our best comparison in terms of QB quality and surrounding team quality is Matt Ryan, Falcons.

 

[Texas Ace]

Just for the hell of it, here are all of their stat lines for their title seasons:

Rypien 91:

Reg Season (16 games started) -- 3564 yards passing, 28 TD to 11 INTs, 59.1 % completion

Playoffs (3 Games):

690 yards passing, 4 TD to 2 INT, 55.7%



Brad Johnson 2002:

Reg Season (13 games started) -- 3049 yards passing, 22 TD to 6 INTs, 62.3 % completion

Playoffs (3 Games):

670 yards passing, 5 TD 3 INTs, 54.1 % completion


Joe Flacco:

Reg Season ( 16 games started) -- 3817 yards passing, 22 TD to 10 INTs, 59.7 % completion

Playoffs (4 Games):

1,140 yards passing, 11 TD to 0 INTs, 57.9% completion


Trent Dilfer 2000:

Reg Season (8 games started) -- 1502 yards, 12 TD to 11 picks, 59.3% completion

Playoffs (4 games):

590 yards passing, 3 TD to 1 INT, 47.9 % completion

 

[Texas Ace]

Geez, looking back at it, Flacco's postseason was unreal and Trent Dilfer's has to be the worst of the modern era.