2018 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread...

[boozeman]

This is why we would be wise to not sit there and assume DE is "set".

 

[Genghis Khan]

I agree, hence why he should roll out more often. They have him as a one-dimensional pocket passer right now. They need to use (all) the talents he has.

I worry that the coaching staff will go too far the other way because I don't think he's that great of a pocket passer. I think they should get him out of the pocket a lot more because he's really good at that, but there needs to be balance.

 

[Cotton]

I worry that the coaching staff will go too far the other way because I don't think he's that great of a pocket passer. I think they should get him out of the pocket a lot more because he's really good at that, but there needs to be balance.

I agree, and they are way out of balance right now.

 

[Smitty]

I think there's a lot of merit to wanting to train Dak to be a well rounded QB.

We shouldn't want him to ONLY do what he's best at because that makes him a limited, one dimensional player who is much easier to game plan and defend.

Look no further than Dez for an example of the coaching staff going too far in one direction with a player instead of coaching up his weaknesses.

Yeah.... I'm not sure I want Dak to be a player we have to scheme rollouts for. That makes him short term more effective, long term less effective.

 

[Smitty]

I worry that the coaching staff will go too far the other way because I don't think he's that great of a pocket passer. I think they should get him out of the pocket a lot more because he's really good at that, but there needs to be balance.

I don't think it's that out of balance now. We do occasionally roll Prescott out and get him on the move. Those should be the exceptions for an elite passer, not the rule. Dak needs to demonstrate he can sit back and win in the pocket.

I'm not going to accuse the coaching staff of not giving him the Robert Griffin or Colin Kaepernick treatment. Those are gimmick QBs who both ended the same way. I've seen that story and it's not what I want from Dak. If we have to increase his rollouts to get effective play out of him, there could be something very, very wrong.

He needs to master pocket passing. Once he does that, then maybe I can complain about not ALSO bootlegging him and rolling him out, since then it's a feather in his cap instead of a crutch to be able to move the ball downfield.

 

[Smitty]

This is why we would be wise to not sit there and assume DE is "set".

Marcus Davenport at #19!

 

[Cotton]

I don't think it's that out of balance now. We do occasionally roll Prescott out and get him on the move. Those should be the exceptions for an elite passer, not the rule. Dak needs to demonstrate he can sit back and win in the pocket.

I'm not going to accuse the coaching staff of not giving him the Robert Griffin or Colin Kaepernick treatment. Those are gimmick QBs who both ended the same way. I've seen that story and it's not what I want from Dak. If we have to increase his rollouts to get effective play out of him, there could be something very, very wrong.

He needs to master pocket passing. Once he does that, then maybe I can complain about not ALSO bootlegging him and rolling him out, since then it's a feather in his cap instead of a crutch to be able to move the ball downfield.

There is a huge difference in rolling your QB out versus running your QB.

 

[Smitty]

There is a huge difference in rolling your QB out versus running your QB.

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between rolling your QB out and being a good pocket passer.

You need to be a good pocket passer to win in this league. Period.

If you have to scheme your QB into success by giving him offense-limiting plays like rollouts cause they are easier for him to execute, then that QB has a very short shelf life.

I will criticize the staff for not using rollouts to get the most out of Prescott once he has mastered passing from the pocket. Until then, it's imperative that he master it, and he needs to keep being forced to do it until he does in fact master it. Calling rollouts to get the most out of Prescott while he struggles between the tackles is just putting lipstick on a pig, and it's a game that will cost any coach his job.

If all Dak's highlights are him throwing from outside the pocket, I see that as a much bigger indictment of Prescott than Linehan or Garrett.

 

[Cotton]

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between rolling your QB out and being a good pocket passer.

You need to be a good pocket passer to win in this league. Period.

If you have to scheme your QB into success by giving him offense-limiting plays like rollouts cause they are easier for him to execute, then that QB has a very short shelf life.

I will criticize the staff for not using rollouts to get the most out of Prescott once he has mastered passing from the pocket. Until then, it's imperative that he master it, and he needs to keep being forced to do it until he does in fact master it. Calling rollouts to get the most out of Prescott while he struggles between the tackles is just putting lipstick on a pig, and it's a game that will cost any coach his job.

So, you're saying they should force him to master a flaw before maximizing his talents. Got it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yeah, but there's a huge difference between rolling your QB out and being a good pocket passer.

You need to be a good pocket passer to win in this league. Period.

If you have to scheme your QB into success by giving him offense-limiting plays like rollouts cause they are easier for him to execute, then that QB has a very short shelf life.

I will criticize the staff for not using rollouts to get the most out of Prescott once he has mastered passing from the pocket. Until then, it's imperative that he master it, and he needs to keep being forced to do it until he does in fact master it. Calling rollouts to get the most out of Prescott while he struggles between the tackles is just putting lipstick on a pig, and it's a game that will cost any coach his job.

If all Dak's highlights are him throwing from outside the pocket, I see that as a much bigger indictment of Prescott than Linehan or Garrett.

Since when did roll out and play action become offense limiting? The Broncos use to do it non stop back in the Elway days and it worked brilliantly. That stuff works great when you have a RB that the defense truly fears. Which we should have again next year with the return of Elliott. I don't think we are talking about a bunch of read option stuff and I sure as shit don't want to do any more normal options. That will get your QB killed. The nice thing with Dak is that he is built more like a RB and less like a chicken legged little shit ready to get killed like RGIII was.

It's actually why Hernandez in the first may be my favorite option now. Go get the guy who is going to help our running game return to greatness. Also 7 of our 9 picks were defense last year. All of the premium picks went defense. I can't imagine Dallas once against abandoning any youth on offense. Not with two young stars in Dak and Elliott and a bunch of aging guys on second contracts around them. Makes more sense to get a young WR that Dak can grow and develop with for the next 8 years.

 

[Smitty]

No one is talking about play action, we do play action plenty.

 

[Smitty]

So, you're saying they should force him to master a flaw before maximizing his talents. Got it.

Master a flaw? Yeah.... when his flaw is being a QB? Yes, they should force him to master that.

He has to be better passing from the pocket. I'm not going to prop him up with bootlegs and roll outs all the time to eek out an extra win or two.

He needs to be a pocket passer. I guess I am assuming that being cast in that role is what will help him master it, rather than excusing him from having to do it. Last year he was not good enough as a pocket passer to be a starting QB in this league for the long term. I'm hoping it was a sophomore slump; combined with what I'll agree was a lack of imagination on offense.

But that lack of imagination doesn't extend to making Prescott a roll out QB.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

No one is talking about play action, we do play action plenty.

No we don't. 90 percent of the time we run when under center. 90 percent of the time we pass when we are in shotgun. It's the most predictable bullshit I've ever seen.

 

[Smitty]

No we don't. 90 percent of the time we run when under center. 90 percent of the time we pass when we are in shotgun. It's the most predictable bullshit I've ever seen.

I'd like to see the league stats on that versus our stats, actually.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'm not going to prop him up with bootlegs and roll outs all the time to eek out an extra win or two.

Someone should tell Mike Shanahan he was doing it wrong all those years. It's called playing to the strengths of your players. It's what good head coaches do.

 

[Cotton]

Master a flaw? Yeah.... when his flaw is being a QB? Yes, they should force him to master that.

He has to be better passing from the pocket. I'm not going to prop him up with bootlegs and roll outs all the time to eek out an extra win or two.

He needs to be a pocket passer. I guess I am assuming that being cast in that role is what will help him master it, rather than excusing him from having to do it. Last year he was not good enough as a pocket passer to be a starting QB in this league for the long term. I'm hoping it was a sophomore slump; combined with what I'll agree was a lack of imagination on offense.

But that lack of imagination doesn't extend to making Prescott a roll out QB.

What the hell are you talking about? You are the one that said they should not roll him out until he becomes a better pocket passer. That's patently absurd.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'd like to see the league stats on that versus our stats, actually.

There was a breakdown article on it during the season. I actually think it may have been worse than what I stated for numbers.

 

[Cotton]

Someone should tell Mike Shanahan he was doing it wrong all those years. It's called playing to the strengths of your players. It's what good head coaches do.

He is having one of those argue just to argue days. AKA every day.

 

[Smitty]

Someone should tell Mike Shanahan he was doing it wrong all those years. It's called playing to the strengths of your players. It's what good head coaches do.

You are referring to John Elway? Notice I never said "don't roll out players." Maybe you'll notice a difference between Prescott and John Elway, though.

 

[Smitty]

What the hell are you talking about? You are the one that said they should not roll him out until he becomes a better pocket passer. That's patently absurd.

I said it makes no sense to critique the staff for not rolling Prescott out all the time until he masters downfield passing from the pocket.

Rolling him out a ton only generates temporary success. It will surprise the defense at first.... then they will summarily take it away, because it limits the offense to half the field when you roll out. If you spend a season rolling out Prescott a lot more than normal, it may result in success that season, but defenses will figure out that tendency and easily take it away.

If you are going to use roll outs as a part of your bag of tricks, that is fine; but it needs to be limited to being a minority playcall.

If your complaint is "Prescott is less effective in the pocket, so the answer is to move him outside the pocket," that is faulty logic. Unless what you are going for is only short term surprise effectiveness. Long term, that strategy is doomed to fail.

John Elway is a Hall of Fame QB. Teams couldn't sell out to stop bootlegs and roll outs against Elway because.... he's a Hall of Fame QB who can beat them from anywhere. Including the pocket.

Prescott isn't effective enough from the pocket yet. He has to get much better at that or he will be out of Dallas within 2 more years.

As such..... yeah.... make his ass work on his pocket passing.