1st round pick: Tyler Smith, OT, Tulsa

[ravidubey]

When a defender is thrown to the ground there is just an assumption by refs that it's holding and not a pancake block.

Say it isn't so!

From the NFL rulebook:

...Uses his hands or arms to materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to: (1) grabbing or tackling an opponent; (2) hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or (3) pulling him to the ground.
...
(2) If a blocker falls on or pushes down a defender whose momentum is carrying him to the ground, Offensive Holding will not be called unless the blocker prevents the defender from rising from the ground. (3) If the official has not seen the entire action that sends a defender to the ground, Offensive Holding will not be called.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Say it isn't so!

From the NFL rulebook:

...Uses his hands or arms to materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to: (1) grabbing or tackling an opponent; (2) hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or (3) pulling him to the ground.
...
(2) If a blocker falls on or pushes down a defender whose momentum is carrying him to the ground, Offensive Holding will not be called unless the blocker prevents the defender from rising from the ground. (3) If the official has not seen the entire action that sends a defender to the ground, Offensive Holding will not be called.

Interesting, didn't know they considered it holding if the blocker stay on the guy when he goes to the ground. Seems a bit uncalled for.

 

[Cotton]

Interesting, didn't know they considered it holding if the blocker stay on the guy when he goes to the ground. Seems a bit uncalled for.

That is rarely called.

 

[p1_]

 

[Genghis Khan]

In other words, "criticize their draft picks all you want, but they have an identity and they know how to plug players into their system."


You'd think he's talking about the Patriots the way he's talking.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

In other words, "criticize their draft picks all you want, but they have an identity and they know how to plug players into their system."


You'd think he's talking about the Patriots the way he's talking.

Nothing wrong with Tyler Smith. I've got other stuff to criticize them for. Like keeping the Philbin or doing zero in free agency so that you had no choice but to draft OLine, WR ams DE.

Tyler Smith is a talented dude. But not like we can just take our time and develop him the way the Eagles can with Davis for example. We need him right now to produce at a high level.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Nothing wrong with Tyler Smith. I've got other stuff to criticize them for. Like keeping the Philbin or doing zero in free agency so that you had no choice but to draft OLine, WR ams DE.

Tyler Smith is a talented dude. But not like we can just take our time and develop him the way the Eagles can with Davis for example. We need him right now to produce at a high level.

I'm fine with the pick (don't love or hate it really), but the way the guy wrote that doesn't sound like our franchise.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'm fine with the pick (don't love or hate it really), but the way the guy wrote that doesn't sound like our franchise.

I love the player. I didn't love him at 24 but I didn't love our options at 24. And while I would have loved him in the second round, he wasn't making it out of the first.

I love him over our best player available in Cine. Who I like but didn't love.

 

[Simpleton]

I love the player. I didn't love him at 24 but I didn't love our options at 24. And while I would have loved him in the second round, he wasn't making it out of the first.

I love him over our best player available in Cine. Who I like but didn't love.

We probably should've taken Johnson but I can accept Smith given the physical presence he will bring to the OL (and he will, regardless of technique development), it being a calculated gamble on LT upside in a weak overall draft but especially at OT, and that he seemingly wasn't making it out of the 1st regardless.

If we had taken Johnson I would've been all about moving back up to the top of the 2nd for Smith similar to what we did with Lawrence in 2014 but it seems he likely wouldn't have even made it that far.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We probably should've taken Johnson but I can accept Smith given the physical presence he will bring to the OL (and he will, regardless of technique development), it being a calculated gamble on LT upside in a weak overall draft but especially at OT, and that he seemingly wasn't making it out of the 1st regardless.

If we had taken Johnson I would've been all about moving back up to the top of the 2nd for Smith similar to what we did with Lawrence in 2014 but it seems he likely wouldn't have even made it that far.

I wonder who the top Olineman would have been for us in the second round had we gone Johnson first. Raimann maybe?

Yeah I think I'll take Smith and Sam Williams over Johnson and Raimann. Just a guess on who the Olineman would have been. Guessing he was our second round target on the Oline if we went WR in the first. Goedeke went right after our pick but I don't know that we had interest.

Raimann and Johnson would have made for an A draft from Kiper but I think we did better. I like Smith a lot better than Raimann and I think Sam Williams could be every bit as good as Johnson when it's all said and done. Pass rushers aren't always the easiest to predict.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If we had taken Johnson I would've been all about moving back up to the top of the 2nd for Smith similar to what we did with Lawrence in 2014 but it seems he likely wouldn't have even made it that far.

Yeah I totally believe the story that the Titans were taking Smith. Hell a lot of mocks had them taking Smith for a reason. Doesn't make Smith the right pick just because one other team agreed with us but Smith would have gone in the first.

Had I been in the war room I probably would have traded down. But then I miss out on Smith and I'm probably drafting Karlaftis or Ebikitie. But the extra ammunition allows me to move up for Pickens. And my Oline preference would have been totally different too. I would have been good with just a pure guard. Sean Rhyan perhaps? I really like Salyer but clearly there was something wrong with him that we don't know. You don't fall as far as he did without a medical or personality issue.

 

[Simpleton]

I wonder who the top Olineman would have been for us in the second round had we gone Johnson first. Raimann maybe?

Yeah I think I'll take Smith and Sam Williams over Johnson and Raimann. Just a guess on who the Olineman would have been. Guessing he was our second round target on the Oline if we went WR in the first. Goedeke went right after our pick but I don't know that we had interest.

Raimann and Johnson would have made for an A draft from Kiper but I think we did better. I like Smith a lot better than Raimann and I think Sam Williams could be every bit as good as Johnson when it's all said and done. Pass rushers aren't always the easiest to predict.

Yea I'm taking Smith/Williams as well, it's riskier but I'd rather go with the significantly more physical OL with significantly more upside and then roll the dice on Williams.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Yea I'm taking Smith/Williams as well, it's riskier but I'd rather go with the significantly more physical OL with significantly more upside and then roll the dice on Williams.

Yeah and I've been a big Sam Williams fan for awhile. But admittedly I'm totally ignoring the sexual assault stuff because I don't have the information.

 

[Simpleton]

Yeah I totally believe the story that the Titans were taking Smith. Hell a lot of mocks had them taking Smith for a reason. Doesn't make Smith the right pick just because one other team agreed with us but Smith would have gone in the first.

Had I been in the war room I probably would have traded down. But then I miss out on Smith and I'm probably drafting Karlaftis or Ebikitie. But the extra ammunition allows me to move up for Pickens. And my Oline preference would have been totally different too. I would have been good with just a pure guard. Sean Rhyan perhaps? I really like Salyer but clearly there was something wrong with him that we don't know. You don't fall as far as he did without a medical or personality issue.

Trading down and taking someone like Karlaftis or Ebiketie, going pure OG with someone like Ingram or Rhyan, still going WR with someone like Tolbert and using the extra pick for a Travis Jones would've been my ideal.

But the fact remains that Smith was basically the only guy with legit LT upside left in the draft so I'm ok with the gamble given the Tyron situation.

The fuckers could've easily just taken Travis Jones in the 2nd then tried to trade up twice in the 3rd for Williams/Tolbert though, but that would've deprived Stephen from using all 6 day 3 picks in hopes of hitting a home run so he can continue being cheap.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, I'm totally fine with Smith now that I've seen more highlights of him plus the way the draft broke.

Some of that is I didn't realize what a good guard he'd apparently make. Still think he looks more like a natural G than T, but I'm okay with that.

He is a projection, but at 24 there aren't many sure things.

 

[NoDak]

Yeah, I'm totally fine with Smith now that I've seen more highlights of him plus the way the draft broke.

Some of that is I didn't realize what a good guard he'd apparently make. Still think he looks more like a natural G than T, but I'm okay with that.

He is a projection, but at 24 there aren't many sure things.

If he can make the transition to tackle and succeed there in a year or so then that's just found money, imo. If he turns out to be a good to great guard, I don't even give a shit about the tackle stuff. We were all prepared to take either Zion or Green and play them at guard with our first pick. If this guy can do the job we expected of them, then what's the problem? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

We were all prepared to take either Zion or Green and play them at guard with our first pick. If this guy can do the job we expected of them, then what's the problem? I'm not seeing it.

I think what's interesting is I think he has more potential at guard than those guys. He is just a more powerful people mover than them. And a big part of playing guard is, don't get knocked backwards in pass protection and knock guys backwards in run blocking. Smith aces those skills. So yeah even if he is just a guard I think he has the potential to be an elite guard. But potential is just that potential. So now we have to maximize it.

 

[Simpleton]

If he can make the transition to tackle and succeed there in a year or so then that's just found money, imo. If he turns out to be a good to great guard, I don't even give a shit about the tackle stuff. We were all prepared to take either Zion or Green and play them at guard with our first pick. If this guy can do the job we expected of them, then what's the problem? I'm not seeing it.

Yea Smith has more upside as an LT than Green or Zion, and while Zion has potential as a center he never played it outside of the Senior Bowl. Smith has actually played LT for several years at a relatively high level.

Zion and Green were just safer bets in general, but Smith has the potential to be way more dominant than either.

After watching Smith closer I think I'd take him over Green, but I'd still probably take Zion over him.

 

[ravidubey]

It's a lot like Fred in 2013. They grabbed among the last guys they know who could start for them up front as a rookie.

Irrespective of the pre-draft ranking, limited supply/high demand can change a lot.

I wish they'd have built some depth in FA, like fucking moving Collins to guard, but he might have refused to do that given the marketability of tackles.

Terron Armstead got 3/50m (minimum) as did Brandon Scherf. Laken Tomlinson was right behind at 3/40m, then Alex Cappa at 4/35m. James Daniels and Austin Corbet each landed 3/26m, and finally Collins 3/21m.

It seems Dallas could have afforded one of those contracts, especially if they planned to pay Gregory the insane cash he got. Especially Collins.

Considering the quality we used to have (Connor Williams got 2/14) all of them would have been affordable depth. We wouldn't have needed to draft Smith, and could have traded down.

 

[boozeman]

It's a lot like Fred in 2013. They grabbed among the last guys they know who could start for them up front as a rookie.

Irrespective of the pre-draft ranking, limited supply/high demand can change a lot.

I wish they'd have built some depth in FA, like fucking moving Collins to guard, but he might have refused to do that given the marketability of tackles.

Terron Armstead got 3/50m (minimum) as did Brandon Scherf. Laken Tomlinson was right behind at 3/40m, then Alex Cappa at 4/35m. James Daniels and Austin Corbet each landed 3/26m, and finally Collins 3/21m.

It seems Dallas could have afforded one of those contracts, especially if they planned to pay Gregory the insane cash he got. Especially Collins.

Considering the quality we used to have (Connor Williams got 2/14) all of them would have been affordable depth. We wouldn't have needed to draft Smith, and could have traded down.

I disagree with almost all of your post here, Ravi. But I don't feel too much like breaking it down.