Sturm: NFL 100 - At No. 29, Emmitt Smith did what he did for longer and better than anyone

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[Chocolate Lab]

Wow, no way Tomlinson was better than Dickerson, Sanders, or Emmitt, among others. So many problems with Gil's list.

 

[Cotton]

Wow, no way Tomlinson was better than Dickerson, Sanders, or Emmitt, among others. So many problems with Gil's list.

I know some might view this take as blasphemy but no way should Earl Campbell be in the top 10. I'm sorry, but all he did was run over people. Hell, might as well put Christian Okoye in the top 10.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I know some might view this take as blasphemy but no way should Earl Campbell be in the top 10. I'm sorry, but all he did was run over people. Hell, might as well put Christian Okoye in the top 10.

Campbell in his prime was incredible. I don't think it matters much how he did it other than his style wasn't sustainable long term. His top 4 or so years were about as good as the NFL has seen.

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 10 either, but that's only because there's so many greats at the position. He was truly great prior to his body breaking down.

 

[Cotton]

Campbell in his prime was incredible. I don't think it matters much how he did it other than his style wasn't sustainable long term. His top 4 or so years were about as good as the NFL has seen.

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 10 either, but that's only because there's so many greats at the position. He was truly great prior to his body breaking down.

But, you have to factor everything in, and a sustainable way of running is one of them. Marion Barber was great for a year or so, but no way he could sustain that. I would consider getting hit less a better virtue in a back than running over people. Just my opinion.

 

[Genghis Khan]

But, you have to factor everything in, and a sustainable way of running is one of them. Marion Barber was great for a year or so, but no way he could sustain that. I would consider getting hit less a better virtue in a back than running over people. Just my opinion.

Barber was never great. Good, sure, but never on the level we're talking about.

As far as Campbell, it depends what you're looking for.

For a whole career I'm not taking Campbell.

But for a game or a season, I'm still not taking Campbell.

Seriously though, he was pretty great in his prime. For that 4 year window I'd be thrilled to have that guy.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Speaking of that, someone mentioned it earlier, but one of Emmitt's great qualities was how he never seemed to take square hits.* When I was a kid and the running back was king, it seemed to be accepted that the great ones could make those subtle moves at the end of the run so defenders never got huge shots on them. Earl showed that no matter how big and strong you are, you can't last too long trying to bulldoze everyone. (That's a problem I have with Elliott, but that's for another thread.)

*Except of course for the stay down biznatch hit

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Campbell in his prime was incredible. I don't think it matters much how he did it other than his style wasn't sustainable long term. His top 4 or so years were about as good as the NFL has seen.

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 10 either, but that's only because there's so many greats at the position. He was truly great prior to his body breaking down.

Adrian Peterson in his prime was exceptional too. Post Emmitt and Barry he may have been the best RB I've seen during his prime

 

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Adrian Peterson in his prime was exceptional too. Post Emmitt and Barry he may have been the best RB I've seen during his prime

But just like many other all-timers, come playoff time and they can’t match their regular season production. I’ll never forget AP losing two fumbles in the NFCC OT game vs Saints

Emmitt delivered playoff time.

Playoffs is where the ’better surrounding cast’ falls apart. Barry Sanders face Green Bay twice a season and goes 100+ yards average in 1994, then -1 in the 1994 playoffs. In 1997, averages 100+ yards vs Tampa Bay in two regular season games, then 65 yards in playoffs.

Winning a Super Bowl requires at least three games of consistent production. Emmitt consistently delivered 100, 100, 100. what’s the use of 180 yards in the Wildcard if you’re gonna disappear for 50 the next week?

 

[Genghis Khan]

In 1997, averages 100+ yards vs Tampa Bay in two regular season games, then 65 yards in playoffs.

This doesn't really bother me. A 65 yard rushing performance is certainly underperforming for a player on that level, but a lot of things can contribute to that and it's not devastatingly bad or anything.

Barry Sanders face Green Bay twice a season and goes 100+ yards average in 1994, then -1 in the 1994 playoffs.

This bothers me a lot about Sanders. That should never ever happen to a great right in the middle of his prime.

Obviously he was a great player regardless. But it probably does knock him down a peg in my eyes.

-1 yards? In a playoff game? This is the greatest RB of all time?

Nah. Nope. That's not MY king.

 

[data]

I didn’t follow Emmitt’s career as a Cardinal, so watching these highlights for the first time is quite illuminating.

Past his prime, on a shitty team, defenders at the LOS, check out all the broken tackles and broken ankles. You telling me that ten years younger it was all Emmitt’s offensive line? GTFO

 

[boozeman]

Campbell in his prime was incredible. I don't think it matters much how he did it other than his style wasn't sustainable long term. His top 4 or so years were about as good as the NFL has seen.

I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 10 either, but that's only because there's so many greats at the position. He was truly great prior to his body breaking down.

He was a fucking bad ass.

I was in Houston then and remember that Campbell ran all over the Cowboys in a preseason game.

 

[data]

He was a fucking bad ass.

I was in Houston then and remember that Campbell ran all over the Cowboys in a preseason game.

@Iamtdg says preseason doesn’t mean anything

 

[Smitty]

But that has been my point.

Where is this perspective about any of the other greats?

The 80s 49ers had a great offensive line.

That certainly helped Montana. Playing with Rice helped Montana. Playing with Montana and Young helped Rice.

I never hear these types of arguments with any of the other greats. But you can say the same for literally all of them. Every single one had a tremendous amount of help.

Did playing with Herman Moore and Lomas Brown help Barry Sanders? Of course.

That doesn't make great players any less great because they played alongside other great players. It's literally normal.

I'm tired of hearing it only about Cowboys players.

I think the issue is that the OL itself for the Cowboys was like Hall of Fame worthy, it was one of if not the best all time as a group. That’s kind of unprecedented.

 

[Smitty]

I didn’t follow Emmitt’s career as a Cardinal, so watching these highlights for the first time is quite illuminating.

Past his prime, on a shitty team, defenders at the LOS, check out all the broken tackles and broken ankles. You telling me that ten years younger it was all Emmitt’s offensive line? GTFO

No, no one is saying it was all Emmitt’s line.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I think the issue is that the OL itself for the Cowboys was like Hall of Fame worthy, it was one of if not the best all time as a group. That’s kind of unprecedented.

That offensive line was great, but it was not at all unprecedented.

For example, Jim Brown's offensive line had (I think) 4 hall of famers. 4.

No one ever seems to bring that up.

 

[Simpleton]

That Cowboys OL took on a life of it's own because Madden would talk about their ass sweat every other quarter, Allen was a GOAT level player (but not even around for the first two SB's) and haters just wanted to look for ways to minimize our stars.

At the end of the day that group never had more than 1 HOF-level OL at any given time, were they great as a group?

Sure.

But what's more likely, that 2-3 guys who were nobody's for 8 years just turned into Pro Bowlers at 31 or Emmitt, with some of the best vision of any back ever, made them look better than they were?

 

[Genghis Khan]

At the end of the day that group never had more than 1 HOF-level OL at any given time,

A lot of great offensive lines only had 1 hall of famer.

I believe Grimm is the only hall of famer from the 80s Hogs.

I believe Webster is the only hall of famer from the 70s Steelers lines.

Just as examples.

But guys like Jon Kolb, Joe Jacoby, and Jeff Bostic, and Erick Williams, Mark Tuinei, and Mark Stepnoski were legitimately great.

 

[boozeman]

That offensive line was great, but it was not at all unprecedented.

For example, Jim Brown's offensive line had (I think) 4 hall of famers. 4.

No one ever seems to being that up.

That is because nobody knows their names.

 

[Cotton]

@Iamtdg says preseason doesn’t mean anything

It doesn't, outside of evaluating your young players.