2021 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread

[Cotton]

I love how Smitty doesn't defend Garrett, by simultaneously defending Garrett.

 

[Simpleton]

You can take it however you want. My point is that this team still kinda sucks, is all, like it has for a while now. We have thought at various times we are so talented but it's become apparent that we really aren't. Especially on defense, and it's been this way for quite some time.



Yeah the defenses are most certainly a wash. The OL and Elliott have decreased, but the WR talent is up like 200-fold. Prescott is also assumed to be much better a player going into this season than he was in say, 2017.

Again, I don't see much difference in terms of an across-the-board talent level from 2016-18 and 2019-20.

And as I sit here I feel like my prediction even with a healthy lineup would be maybe wildcard or divisional round, and taking advantage of a weak division at that.

I didn't feel like that last year. With another year of reflection on the state of the roster, that seems to be what makes sense.

And in retrospect that's how it has been for a decade now. If things go right, we can make the playoffs and not much more.

We will see. Of course McCarthy is capable of getting the team to overachieve and do more.

But at this point it doesn't seem like anyone is counting on it.

Just saying at some point the finger has to be pointed at someone besides the coach here for this decade long stagnation.

I don't disagree about the roster not being at the level of the truly elite contenders (i.e. KC, Tampa), and I think a large part of that is the front office's refusal to use FA as anything but a way to mitigate the draft, which they seem to consider the only real way to build a team.

With all that said, I still think those 2014 and 2016 rosters were better than this one, primarily because of the OL and having RB's at their peaks. The WR point is definitely accurate, although more so in comparison to 2016 as opposed to 2014 where we had Dez at his peak and Witten still near his peak.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Given that it's only McCarthy's second season I'd be fine with that, but if we then go 8-8 in year 3 without any significant mitigating circumstances, which is obviously the pattern Garrett followed for most of his time here, then I'd again want him fired.

And yes, the 2019 defense wasn't anywhere near elite but it was better than the literal historically bad defense we put on the field last year, to go along with a fully healthy, fully functional offense.

Yeah I think McCarthy deserves a pass since it was year 1 and the injuries were the worst I have ever seen on this team. It wasn't just Dak but basically the entire Oline.

The only thing I put on McCarthy is that he hired Nolan or picked Nolan and he was an epic failure. The defensive performance last year was about as bad as it gets. Our defense didn't have much talent but the coaching didn't help either. Hopefully both are better this year.

 

[Smitty]

I love how Smitty doesn't defend Garrett, by simultaneously defending Garrett.

The point stands on it's own. This team isn't the 4th best talented team in the league and hasn't been for a long time.

If you feel that is somehow weakening any of the (many ridiculous) claims levied against him at times, that is your own business.

 

[Simpleton]

This talk about talent versus coaching ignores the fact that the coaching has directly led to failures that had little to do with the talent on the field.

Take the 2013 team. The defense was hot garbage (a lot due to Kiffin's horrid coaching).

But that still should have been at least a 10 win playoff team. We blew 2 big second half leads against Detroit and Green Bay when we were too retarded to lean on our dominant running game.

We weren't the most talented team in the league but we had enough to get further than we did that season.

It's been a long time since I've felt we had a coaching advantage over other teams, probably since Parcells. I was hoping McCarthy would gives us that but I don't think we've seen it so far (obviously injuries have played a part). Let's hope that changes in 21.

Yea, it wasn't just about the years where we were contenders, it's also about how discombobulated they looked every other year with mostly high-level talent.

I'm not going to rehash the numerous clusterfucks, but I'll say this, if we go 8-8 this year with a mostly healthy team with 2-3 losses that are similar to the shit we saw in those games you referenced or that 2017 Seattle game at home where we held the Seahawks to like 120 yards and still lost because of like 4 turnovers and 12 penalties, yea, I'll want McCarthy gone just as badly as I wanted Garrett gone.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Whomever is the head coach in Dallas is hamstrung by our philosophy (offense comes first) and the DC. That still does not absolve Garrett for failing with good talent.

I still think a lot of that was Garrett. He's been here and in Jerry's ear since two thousand freaking seven. Even when Wade was HC, we know he was Jerry's boy and he tried to appease him, especially after the job offers following that first year. (Before that, they did at least take Spencer in the first.)

When Parcells was here we spent plenty of draft capital on defense. And then look at this year with an offensive-minded HC.

Except this HC is secure in who he is and isn't bent on making himself look good on "his" side of the ball.

 

[Genghis Khan]

The only thing I put on McCarthy is that he hired Nolan or picked Nolan and he was an epic failure.

Yep and that's a big deal for a HC. You have to get your coordinators right.

 

[p1_]

Yep and that's a big deal for a HC. You have to get your coordinators right.

I know its a nepotistic coaches world, but Nolan kinda fucked Fat Mike. Your boy needs to deliver.

 

[Genghis Khan]

This team isn't the 4th best talented team in the league and hasn't been for a long time.

That's where we disagree. You seem to be making the argument that this is basically the same team Garrett had and that's absurd. Particularly given he was the HC for 9 1/2 years.

 

[Simpleton]

I still think a lot of that was Garrett. He's been here and in Jerry's ear since two thousand freaking seven. Even when Wade was HC, we know he was Jerry's boy and he tried to appease him, especially after the job offers following that first year. (Before that,. they did take Spencer in the first.)

When Parcells was here we spent plenty of draft capital on defense. And then look at this year with an offensive-minded HC.

Except this HC is secure in who he is and isn't bent on making himself look good on "his" side of the ball.

I think the true root of the issue is that the organization has no guiding principles as far as defensive football and seemingly doesn't know how to evaluate defensive talent in a nuanced, thoughtful way. That goes back to Jerry/Stephen not being true football guys/talent evaluators, but I think also to the point you make about Garrett, and to a lesser extent the fact that we've had offense-minded HC's for almost 15 years.

The philosophy for far too long, and even now, is to basically get a DC who has skins on the wall and hope they can fix things, and as a result they give them too much of a voice in the draft room and the scouts don't really know what they're looking for.

It goes all the way back to Rob Ryan wanting "nothing but CB's" in like 2012 and from there on out it's just been a revolving door of former HC's at DC who are generally respected (Kiffin, Marinelli, Nolan, Quinn) but organizationally there is a lack of understanding of the nuanced needs/differences of each scheme, so that's how you get fucking Marinelli fist-pumping over Trysten Hill after he signs his "work ethic" contract.

We could definitely luck into the right guy or catch lightning in a bottle, we damn near did in 2014 and 2016, but the organization will always be at the mercy of the philosophy of whoever the DC is and we just have to hope that their philosophy is coherent and that they're able to judge talent that fits it.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think the true root of the issue is that the organization has no guiding principles as far as defensive football and seemingly doesn't know how to evaluate defensive talent in a nuanced, thoughtful way. That goes back to Jerry/Stephen not being true football guys/talent evaluators, but I think also to the point you make about Garrett, and to a lesser extent the fact that we've had offense-minded HC's for almost 15 years.

The philosophy for far too long, and even now, is to basically get a DC who has skins on the wall and hope they can fix things, and as a result they give them too much of a voice in the draft room and the scouts don't really know what they're looking for.

I think there are two different issues there. Sure, you can't constantly be radically switching schemes, but I think the bigger problem is just a simple lack of talent. It's not scheme fit as much as that we don't have good players in any scheme. Who are the best defensive players we've had in years now? Lawrence? LVE his first year? We just don't have talented players no matter the scheme.

The part about awarding new coaches this pick or that pick to make them feel good is of course a problem but I think that's separate.

As for the scouts, these guys aren't that dumb. They know what a 43 DE looks like vs a 34 DE. They may not be good at judging them, though. As much as anything, I think we simply haven't devoted the resources to the defense.

Back to the scheme changes, I've mentioned it before, but on an old work computer several years ago I recorded this nighttime Ticket interview with Larry Lacewell. He of course sounded drunk, but he pretty much admitted that he and Jerry resented Parcells' switch to the 34 and wanted to go back to what they'd run under Jimmy, etc. Seemed like they just switched back with Kiffin (and he had known Kiffin for decades) almost to erase Parcells' influence.

 

[Rev]

Yep and that's a big deal for a HC. You have to get your coordinators right.

Yep. Just ask the Giants.

 

[Rev]

I'll never forget that Green Bay game. 7 total rushing attempts in the second half after utterly dominating them in the first half, and having a sizable lead. It was the most unreal half of football I may have ever watched.

And should have been the focal point of firing Garrett that year. That's such a PeeWee level mistake that shouldn't be done in a high school game much less a NFL game.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

And should have been the focal point of firing Garrett that year. That's such a PeeWee level mistake that shouldn't be done in a high school game much less a NFL game.

One of his many. He made enough elementary clock mistakes in his second year alone to be fired the minute the season ended.

 

[p1_]

here goes Stephen.

 

[Smitty]

That's where we disagree. You seem to be making the argument that this is basically the same team Garrett had and that's absurd. Particularly given he was the HC for 9 1/2 years.

I didn't say it's the same team, I said it's the same talent level. Especially dating back to about 2016 or so. The defense isn't one iota better and the offense is better at passing but worse at running.

 

[Smitty]

One of his many. He made enough elementary clock mistakes in his second year alone to be fired the minute the season ended.

This is all nice but it's OT. Not arguing about Garrett.

The point is that the talent level is not very good right now and in retrospect it hasn't really been for a long time.

 

[Smitty]

I think there are two different issues there. Sure, you can't constantly be radically switching schemes, but I think the bigger problem is just a simple lack of talent. It's not scheme fit as much as that we don't have good players in any scheme. Who are the best defensive players we've had in years now? Lawrence? LVE his first year? We just don't have talented players no matter the scheme.

Exactly - but we never really had any to begin with there. Lawrence had about 2 good years, LVE and Jaylon were fools gold, Byron never made a play, no interior DT or S presence any year at all, it goes on and on.

 

[Genghis Khan]

The defensive talent hasn't been "great" for a while, but it's certainly been "good enough" several seasons recently. The fact that we're trying to get back to "good enough" should tell you how bad the talent cratered defensively last season.

Not to mention the numbers alone make it abundantly clear. I don't recall giving up 30+ points weekly, pretty much ever.

 

[boozeman]

So if I guess we should just look at possible acquisitions' arm length going forward, discounting if they can play or not.