Dak Watch Thread...

[ravidubey]

League MVP is no joke, and he’s the biggest reason why his team wins.

He had a strong OL, and an above average RB.

What else? He had a strong defense, but if he’s not manufacturing big plays and scoring that defense gets tired like any other. He played and beat the NFL’s best teams. Consistently. And his offense would have been complete shit without him.

It’s one thing to say he was coached well, but it was obvious his talent did things no amount of coaching made happen.

He embarrassed people.

He took the same heavily coached stuff Dak and RG3 brought in their rookie years or Ryan Tannehill last year and turned the dial to 11.

You can hate on him all you want but you’d have put Mahomes right there before 2019 too.

Maybe the league gets wise to Jackson’s game... well he’s going to get better too. The improvement from year one to year two was amazing. Dak regressed over the same relative period.

Now, if anything, skill players around him have improved.

 

[ravidubey]

When Russell Wilson, so forth and Drew Brees wins League MVP, you’ll have a point.

They have different hardware

 

[chevycowboys]

Since you included old-timers, for one season, I'd add Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers to the list. Kirk Cousins is same tier but I'd take him over Dak for the $32M/year for three years vs Dak's desired $35M/four years

Screw Phillip Rivers.. He ain’t shit! Most overrated player in the NFL.

 

[data]

Screw Phillip Rivers.. He ain’t shit! Most overrated player in the NFL.

okay. Elaborate.

 

[p1_]

When Russell Wilson, so forth and Drew Brees wins League MVP, you’ll have a point.

Wilson and Brees have each won a Super Bowl. Jackson has not, so theres that.

 

[ravidubey]

Rivers seems like he’s in decline, but last year the Chargers’ OL was in shambles. Too many injuries, and just not very good to begin with.

Indy is a totally different story. We might see a Rivers resurgence.

 

[Simpleton]

League MVP is no joke, and he’s the biggest reason why his team wins.

He had a strong OL, and an above average RB.

What else? He had a strong defense, but if he’s not manufacturing big plays and scoring that defense gets tired like any other. He played and beat the NFL’s best teams. Consistently. And his offense would have been complete shit without him.

It’s one thing to say he was coached well, but it was obvious his talent did things no amount of coaching made happen.

He embarrassed people.

He took the same heavily coached stuff Dak and RG3 brought in their rookie years or Ryan Tannehill last year and turned the dial to 11.

You can hate on him all you want but you’d have put Mahomes right there before 2019 too.

Maybe the league gets wise to Jackson’s game... well he’s going to get better too. The improvement from year one to year two was amazing. Dak regressed over the same relative period.

Now, if anything, skill players around him have improved.

His running is what is special, so special that we really haven't seen anything like it ever aside from Vick. He had 38% as many rushing yards as passing, he ran for over 1200 yards and averaged nearly 7 YPC. He was 6th in the league in rushing yards, 23rd in attempts. That's absolutely ridiculous, both good and bad.

You want to put him in the elite QB category for that? Be my guest but I can guarantee you it will be short-lived.

As far as I can tell a QB has never ran the ball that many times in a season, do you think he can keep that up?

His passing numbers are impressive because they're extremely efficient, which is purely a function of how amazingly dynamic their running game was, largely due to him, coupled with how creative their offensive design in general was to give him easy throws/reads with defenses focused on the run. Not because he's some boffo passer who just carves up secondaries with 3 and 5-step drops like it's second nature while running for 100 yards a game.

But the real telling statistic that really exemplifies how heavily their passing game was built on the running game is his pass attempts.

401.

Even in Dak's rookie year he still threw the ball 459 times a game, which is significantly more if you look at average attempts per game.

Jackson's attempts per game, 26.73, ranked 40th in the league. The only legitimate starting QB last year with less attempts per game was Tannehill, who clearly was running a training wheels offense as they fed Henry 35 times a game.

The truly elite passing QB's, the ones who carry their offenses with their arm that you lust over when bitching about Dak, generally average around 35 attempts per game.

You know who is down in that range averaging around 27 attempts per game?

Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Jacoby Brissett, Case Keenum and a host of other career backup types. QB's like Tannehill, Garoppolo and Cousins are the only somewhat capable passers in that range, although they're obviously in purposefully run-heavy oriented offenses because their teams want to win with defense, the running game and QB's limiting mistakes. Game managers and bus drivers, or as you put it guys who aren't going to win in the playoffs.

Unless Jackson improves significantly as a passer his success last year will be a complete aberration, a fluke that will only last for as long as he can continue to put up historically rare rushing performances and continue to stay healthy while finishing top 10 in the league in rushing.

Long story short, you're lusting over a guy who wins with his legs first and second, and his arm third, and given how he's fallen flat on his face twice in a row in the playoffs it's astounding to me that you're so quick to put him on a pedestal with the literal best QB's in the league while throwing Dak under the bus for the exact same reason.

 

[NoDak]

Meh. Jackson is a nice story, but I'm not overly impressed. I've seen this story before, with RGIII. If he's still doing it in a couple more years, then I'll say he belongs in the discussion of the league's best QBs.

 

[Simpleton]

Meh. Jackson is a nice story, but I'm not overly impressed. I've seen this story before, with RGIII. If he's still doing it in a couple more years, then I'll say he belongs in the discussion of the league's best QBs.

Like Wilson he needs to start winning with his arm and only using his legs situationally if he wants to be an elite QB for 10+ years, and Wilson was never even close to as reliant on his legs as Jackson is.

If he can somehow run the ball 150+ times a season and stay healthy over 10 years, great, maybe he's the anomaly who can have longevity as a run-first QB, but I'm betting heavily against that.

 

[data]

League MVP is no joke, and he’s the biggest reason why his team wins.

You may have a aneurysm December 3rd. Make sure you’re here so we can witness it.

If we lose 59-0, I want a front row seat.

 

[chevycowboys]

okay. Elaborate.

It’s simple. Philip Rivers has done nothing in the NFL. Save for a few seasons being in the playoffs and winning a couple, his teams have had more losing seasons then winning ones. So he has a bunch of stats... who cares. Him being on the field doesn’t give a team an extra win or two. You can compare that to whoever. I think Romo accomplished more then Rivers and was more valuable to his them then Rivers was. I can’t stand the fact that people say Rivers is a HOF QB... Absurd..

 

[p1_]

Emmitt Smith's take on Dallas paying Dak is 'simplistic and unrealistic'

 

[bbgun]

meh. we already knew Emmitt was a dummy.

 

[Cotton]

meh. we already knew Emmitt was a dummy.

Two words... leopard. stripes.

 

[ravidubey]

Sheesh, so people don’t like Jackson! Noted. I don’t really care, I think he did very well last year and most importantly found ways to win games against some really tough opponents.

League MVP is hard to earn, you don’t just dismiss something like that out of hand.

I get he doesn’t need to throw as much, but when he does, his TD percentage is a crazy 9%, and I think his WR corps as improved, though not as much as it should have.

As for Dec 3rd, it will be the biggest test our team has had in a long while. I just hope we actually (finally) have a real coach again.

Force Baltimore into a shootout style game, because our aging front seven might not be strong enough to deal with a ground and pound battle.

The Chiefs did that and took Jackson out of his game, but he still scored on them and kept key drives alive late.

We need to do the same, except win

 

[NoDak]

Sheesh, so people don’t like Jackson!

Drama much? Nobody said they didn't like Jackson. Only that he needs to throw the ball better and to have sustained success before he deserves to be thought of as one of the leagues few elite QBs. He had a great season. Nobody is denying that. But it was done in a gimmicky offense, which can also not be denied. Just like RGIII. People were also saying he was the next great thing, and we all saw how that turned out once the league figured it and him out.

 

[Simpleton]

Sheesh, so people don’t like Jackson! Noted. I don’t really care, I think he did very well last year and most importantly found ways to win games against some really tough opponents.

League MVP is hard to earn, you don’t just dismiss something like that out of hand.

I get he doesn’t need to throw as much, but when he does, his TD percentage is a crazy 9%, and I think his WR corps as improved, though not as much as it should have.

As for Dec 3rd, it will be the biggest test our team has had in a long while. I just hope we actually (finally) have a real coach again.

Force Baltimore into a shootout style game, because our aging front seven might not be strong enough to deal with a ground and pound battle.

The Chiefs did that and took Jackson out of his game, but he still scored on them and kept key drives alive late.

We need to do the same, except win

It's not even about disliking Jackson, if you guaranteed me that he'd be able to stay completely healthy over 10 years while running 150 times a year then I'd say you have yourself a future HOF QB, that's just extremely unrealistic.

Their top 3 rushers last year combined for over 500 carries and averaged nearly 6 YPC, they had two RB's with over 100 carries both averaging over 5 YPC. That's unprecedented and a function of Jackson's rare running ability plus their extremely creative offensive design. But eventually NFL defenses come for every running QB and it's only a matter of time until the scheme is figured out, the QB starts to slow down from the toll of all the hits, they get injured, or some combination of all three.

He must improve significantly as passer to have longevity, I think he can and if I didn't I wouldn't rank him in that 6-12 range and would say he'll be out of the league in 5 years, but he has to actually do it before I put him up there in the top 5, let alone the top 2-3.

It's just completely astounding to me that you harp on Dak, and QB's in general, needing to win with their arms in the playoffs then gush over this guy who runs a training wheels passing game and has looked like complete warmed over shit in two straight years in the playoffs.

Against the Chargers I'm not even sure Jackson had 50 yards passing going into the 4th quarter, the final score looks close but that performance from Jackson was legitimately one of the most pathetic I've ever seen out of a QB in the playoffs. He was completely overwhelmed and looked like a QB who shouldn't even be in the league. Then against the Titans he was totally ineffective and the only reason his stats look somewhat passable is due to garbage time.

Both games at home. Both games he looked somewhere between completely pathetic and below average. Both games his team lost by double digits and the only TD's he threw in either game came in garbage time with his team down double digits. 3 total TD's (all in garbage time) against 5 turnovers.

Meanwhile Dak played prime Rodgers in God-mode to basically as close of a draw as you'll see in football, beat Russell Wilson, and has 7 total TD's against 2 turnovers.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Two words... leopard. stripes.

Does a leopard have stripes? ;)

 

[Cotton]

Does a leopard have stripes? ;)

According to Emmitt they do.

 

[ravidubey]

He must improve significantly as passer to have longevity, I think he can and if I didn't I wouldn't rank him in that 6-12 range and would say he'll be out of the league in 5 years

No disagreement from me here. but I'm ranking QB's by where they are now, not in ten years.

The 2019 Baltimore offense was "unprecedented" because of Jackson, not the coaches. Yes they used him well, meaning they weren't the total idiots like we're used to having.

Hey, we have a dynamic QB, how about we run an option offense so defenses will be on their heels? No brainer.

It's how the man executed as a threat to run and pass that made the offense special.

If you are suggesting Harbaugh designed something that no one has seen before in the history of the game... really?

You always have the best takes on this site, hands down, Simp. But last year, Jackson was clearly the difference for the Ravens.