Well I think that's good advice for both people that were part of this incident. They both clearly did things to make the matter worse. The difference is one is a paid government employee doing it and the other isn't.
Then allow me to make the point another way. Regardless of what the "paid government employee" does that is improper, keep your head and don't react in the same or worse manner. Just get past the situation then begin whatever redress you might seek.
See when you say it like that it sounds like you're blaming the driver for what the officer did to her.
I'm not blaming anyone for anything. This is just what I would advise anyone to do if they are detained by law enforcement. Don't make the situation worse by reacting just because you can or feel justified that you can. Get past it and then seek redress with the appropriate officials. That's it. It a pragmatic approach plain and simple.
I think the problem is this really gets you nowhere and allows bad officers to continue bullying people around. The positive of an incident like this is that a bad officer is uncovered and actually disciplined.
Did you not read the part about seeking redress?
What redress would that be? Having your complaint wadded up and thrown away by an amused supervisor? That'll show him.
So your approach is that it is better to confront the situation on the spot for justice rather than seeking it through the appropriate system? Am I to understand that you think there is no system for seeking justice?
Do you know what civil disobedience is? I think it is likely to evoke far more change then just giving in and writing a complaint note later that the officer will laugh about with the other officers.
You are way off topic. My position addressed the circumstance of how to react when detained. Now you seem to think the appropriate redress is civil disobedience rather than utilizing the systems in place for redress. This surprises me coming from someone who takes an oath of admission to the bar.
My approach is to bitch about it on the internet since there is no system for seeking justice and I can't do anything about it. (except try to vote for libertarian leaning politicians).
Is that how you will react if detained?
Why? I'm not advocating breaking the law. I'm advocating not obeying unlawful commands by an officer. There are actually lots of instances where you should not cooperate with an officer.
That is very true but it probably isn't in your best interest for the most part to become disobedient as a remedy for the situation unless you are convinced you are in imminent danger from the officer.
Depends on the situation. Here is an interesting question though. Should she have put the cigarette out when the officer commanded her to do so? Now the polite thing to do would have been to just put it out. I'm not talking about being polite. However, the officer had really no reason to request her to put it out. So in that circumstance was the car driver doing anything wrong by refusing to put it out?
Yes. I will deal with the cop calmly, even if he's an asshole state trooper, then go home and bitch about it on the internet. I've done it before.
I can see Forts' point here, a lit cig is a dangerous object. If he had told her "for my safety I need you to put that out," I think he's justified if he's had someone try to burn him with one, or knows it can definitely happen.
That question is moot as far as what I am advocating as a general matter. It isn't a matter of right or wrong. My position is one that is purely practical and it doesn't matter who is right. You are taking a legal avenue as what is acceptable and who is correct. Mine is pragmatic toward keeping the conflict to a minimum and living to fight another day so to speak. We are not on the same page.
You're making a point no one really disagrees with, so I'm not sure what the purpose is in reiterating it.
Because posters keep posing questions.