The Running Back position will doom us or not thread...

[Cowboysrock55]

They have a truly great WR and are solid at RB. They always seem to play physical defense, regardless of the talent.

Why are they so solid at RB? They don't have a single dude at RB who has gone over 1000 yards. Andre Williams averaged 3.3 ypc last year. Is Rashaad Jennings the guy that makes them solid? With his 3.8 ypc? Hell Shane Vareen is more of a WR then a RB and even those numbers were probably inflated by the Pats system.

You crack me up when it comes to RBs. Dallas needs a total overhaul of the position. While the Giants are solid.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The opponents are also pros.

4 YPC isn't that hard for a RB to achieve behind a really good offensive line with an elite passing game threatening them. We aren't talking about the 5 ypc that Murray was close to most of his career which is a far more difficult number for a RB to reach.

 

[NoDak]

Why are they so solid at RB? They don't have a single dude at RB who has gone over 1000 yards. Andre Williams averaged 3.3 ypc last year. Is Rashaad Jennings the guy that makes them solid? With his 3.8 ypc? Hell Shane Vareen is more of a WR then a RB and even those numbers were probably inflated by the Pats system.

You crack me up when it comes to RBs. Dallas needs a total overhaul of the position. While the Giants are solid.

 

[p1_]

Great that we upgraded the pass rush. Not so great that we downgraded the running game.

How could we have accomplished both goals that we neglected running back to the benefit of our pass rush ? It was one or the other I think.

 

[L.T. Fan]

IMO it's about being able to threaten run almost regardless of the situation. Murray could run against an 8-man front because he consistently beat at least one defender.

You could have the Justice League on the offensive line but if your RB can't consistently beat that one defender the other team can contain your running game. You get Randle-syndrome, taking exactly what's blocked for you.

Then the down and distance charts will be screaming at the OC to pass the football. And Romo will succeed at it... until he doesn't. We've seen this before when the man feels like he has to do everything which is of course impossible.

Garrett has proven he doesn't have the coaching chops nor is the team built to run a pass-heavy, pass-first offense. Our supporting receivers have improved, but I don't know how much I trust them.

How would the Avengers do as an OL?

 

[ravidubey]

The way I see it. Randle can break tackles.

"Can" break tackles vs. "consistently" breaks tackles is the difference between average and good.

You keep saying Randle can't make any body miss when the evidence has been posted multiple times showing him make people miss, so that narrative is unequivically false.

It's not false. I've noticed it since the man started playing. He can sometimes make someone miss. He can sometimes break a tackle. Like any average back could. I absolutely do not expect it from him and whenever it happens it feels like Christmas.

Relative to Murray, Randle is a step backward in every category. We're going around in circles here, but you asked.

How would the Avengers do as an OL?

They might suck for the following reasons:

- Hulk gets too many unnecessary roughness and personal foul calls. When the game gets boring he becomes a genius wimp.
- iron man and thor suspended for invalid helmets
- black widow and scarlet witch banned for having vaginas

 

[townsend]

They might suck for the following reasons:

- Hulk gets too many unnecessary roughness and personal foul calls. When the game gets boring he becomes a genius wimp.
- iron man and thor suspended for invalid helmets
- black widow and scarlet witch banned for having vaginas

Hawkeye may forget which team he's playing for. Which is no great loss, because Hawkeye fails at everything.

 

[Genghis Khan]

So we wouldn't spend a 4th on the guy who made him expendable, but we'll give a 3rd for him...?

I would've spent a 4th on Ajayi, so I can't help you there.

 

[Genghis Khan]

How could we have accomplished both goals that we neglected running back to the benefit of our pass rush ? It was one or the other I think.

Not true. We could've drafted a RB in the 3rd or 4th that would've been better than what we have, and it wouldn't have affected our upgrading the pass rush one bit.

We even could have tried to trade down from our 1st and taken, say ,Coleman at the top of the 2nd and picked up another pick in the process.

We certainly could have upgraded both.

 

[NoDak]

Not true. We could've drafted a RB in the 3rd or 4th that would've been better than what we have, and it wouldn't have affected our upgrading the pass rush one bit.

We even could have tried to trade down from our 1st and taken, say ,Coleman at the top of the 2nd and picked up another pick in the process.

We certainly could have upgraded both.

Yeah, I don't agree with that. First, there wasn't going to be a trade down once one of our targets in Jones was there. And we certainly didn't expect Gregory to be there at the bottom of the second. There's no way to know, but maybe the idea was to take a RB there, until the incredible gift of Gregory fell there to us. So just for arguments sake, say Gregory was gone and we take a RB there. Then who do we take later to improve our pass rush?

As for the bottom of the third, once we came on the clock there wasn't anybody left that I feel is a guarantee to be better than what we already have. And if there wasn't one there in the 3rd, it's obvious there wasn't one there in the 4th, either. I wanted Ajayi just as much as anybody, but we don't know what NFL teams know about the health of his knees. And obviously, none of them were willing to pull the trigger on him until the fifth. A lot of RBs that we fans thought were inferior to him went long before he did.

 

[ravidubey]

Why are they so solid at RB?

I'm not saying NY is better than Dallas. Let's make that clear.

But you never, ever count that team out as long as they have Coughlin and Manning. Sorry, but history has proven that. They are always a team to contend with within the division and should be again in 2015.

At RB they are solid. They have Shane Vereen and Rashad Jennings who are each are proven veterans, and while not world-beaters they are reliable. Jennings averaged 4.5 YPC and 3.8 YPC the last two seasons and each year carried the ball triple Joseph Randle's carries. Vereen is average, but proven solid in a rotation for several years.

If one goes down or performs poorly you have another.

That's not counting a rookie steal in Andre Williams with upside.

That's two solid veterans and a promising rookie in a strong rookie class.

Dallas has an 8 year has-been in Darren McFadden who will be lucky to finish the season given his track record. When he was on the same team as Jennings, he was worse in every category including number of carries and TDs. They have a single average back in Randle and two scrubs in Williams and Dunbar.

Jennings> McFadden | Vereen >=Randle | Andre Williams >>>>> Ryan Williams+Lance Dunbar. That's just reality.

Fortunately Dallas has a tremendous OL.

NY's OL just went from a complete disaster to improved with a couple of backup free agents and Ereck Flowers. Basically they are the best coached team in the division and you can't mention Sam Bradford in the same sentence as Eli Manning without laughing out loud at the Eagles.

 

[NoDak]

Says NY is not better than Dallas at RB, and wants to make that clear.

Then posts long drawn out explanation why NY is better than Dallas at RB.

Seems legit.

 

[ravidubey]

Amazing how something as relatively minor as a 4th round pick could have made such a big difference.

Romo's window is right now, so who cares about Ajayi's longevity at that point, even if it was only a single season?

And given his knee lasted four years after his injury at Boise St., there's a lot to backup the thought he would last more than a single season in Dallas, especially not having to carry the full workload and having the support of NFL trainers and med staff.

It doesn't matter now.

At least the OL is better.

 

[ravidubey]

Says NY is not better than Dallas at RB, and wants to make that clear.

Then posts long drawn out explanation why NY is better than Dallas at RB.

Seems legit.

NoDak, do I need to go back and bold my first sentence again?

 

[NoDak]

NoDak, do I need to go back and bold my first sentence again?

If you'd like to, sure. While you're doing that, read the one line that you quoted and responded to from CRock.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'm still confused. So a RB who averaged 3.3 YPC last year and another who average 3.8 ypc are considered solid. Even though neither has run for more then 1000 yards ever in their careers or really come close to be exact.

Yet they are ok because of Shane Vereen? Whose rushing stats last year were 96 carries for 391 yards (Both career bests). Hell Randle almost had that many yards with half the carries.

Now I wasn't trying to compare them directly. Just pointing out you think the Cowboys are a disaster and the Giants are solid but I think someone could make an easy argument that the Cowboys are better. We at least have a back who has rushed for a 1000 yards at least once in his career. Who happens to actually have a 4.1 YPC career average. He has much better pedigree then any of the Giants RBs. We have a young "steal" in a RB who averaged 6.8 YPC last year and outproduced Vereen as a rusher. We have a talented former second round back who is finally fully recovered from a devastating injury back in his rookie season. And a back in Dunbar who can catch the ball really well.

 

[townsend]

Why's Ajayi an upgrade over Randle? They're both 5th round RBs. Unlike Randle though Ajayi's never taken a snap in the NFL, and would certainly be much less ready to play day one than a guy who's been in this offense for 2 years. It would have been nice to grab another guy. But I'm skeptical of him as the solution to anyone's RB dilemma.

Also if we can't win in the playoffs without a feature back, the Romo "window" is meaningless. Because he's only a bus driver if he can't win with the line and weapons that he's surrounded with.

 

[ravidubey]

I'm still confused. So a RB who averaged 3.3 YPC last year and another who average 3.8 ypc are considered solid. Even though neither has run for more then 1000 yards ever in their careers or really come close to be exact.

Yet they are ok because of Shane Vereen? Whose rushing stats last year were 96 carries for 391 yards (Both career bests). Hell Randle almost had that many yards with half the carries.

Now I wasn't trying to compare them directly. Just pointing out you think the Cowboys are a disaster and the Giants are solid but I think someone could make an easy argument that the Cowboys are better. We at least have a back who has rushed for a 1000 yards at least once in his career. Who happens to actually have a 4.1 YPC career average. He has much better pedigree then any of the Giants RBs. We have a young "steal" in a RB who averaged 6.8 YPC last year and outproduced Vereen as a rusher. We have a talented former second round back who is finally fully recovered from a devastating injury back in his rookie season. And a back in Dunbar who can catch the ball really well.

C-rock, the Cowboys rushing game is not a disaster, and I have never said that. But they stand to fall from the NFL's best rushing attack that doesn't feature a QB to merely above average.

The fact that you can objectively and favorably compare the quality of the Giants backs to the Cowboys is an unreal step backwards considering the contribution of the position to our overall record last year.

Both Vereen and Jennings are solid veteran backs. Not great, not terrible. Joseph Randle looks about the same thus far. McFadden might look worse than all of them, short of some kind of Charles White rebirth.

Dallas has no one to compare to Andre Williams, who I think will be the Giants starter soon enough. Please, let's not tout Dunbar or Williams as any kind of advantage.

Until proven otherwise, this season is all on the OL and Romo and the passing game. As of right now, that's a step back.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Dallas has no one to compare to Andre Williams

Andre Williams averaged 3.3 YPC last year. It's not an issue of small sample size either. The guy had 212 carries. Trent Richardson even laughs at those numbers.

 

[Clay_Allison]

C-rock, the Cowboys rushing game is not a disaster, and I have never said that. But they stand to fall from the NFL's best rushing attack that doesn't feature a QB to merely above average.

The fact that you can objectively and favorably compare the quality of the Giants backs to the Cowboys is an unreal step backwards considering the contribution of the position to our overall record last year.

Both Vereen and Jennings are solid veteran backs. Not great, not terrible. Joseph Randle looks about the same thus far. McFadden might look worse than all of them, short of some kind of Charles White rebirth.

Dallas has no one to compare to Andre Williams, who I think will be the Giants starter soon enough. Please, let's not tout Dunbar or Williams as any kind of advantage.

Until proven otherwise, this season is all on the OL and Romo and the passing game. As of right now, that's a step back.

You're citing the best case scenario for every Giants back and worst case for every Dallas back. If you have to be that biased to make a point, you probably don't have one.