The Outrage Thread

[Sheik]

Save the kids from gun violence!

But also, sterilize children and mutilate them!

 

[Smitty]

I don't differentiate between gay and trans. It's what someone feels they are. Whether its biological or not, doesn't matter to me.

This is a pretty ignorant stance though.

A gay person doesn't feel like something they aren't, they are just attracted to a different type of person. Completely different. Like, you could be attracted to blond women and I could be attracted to brunettes.

A person who feels like they are a girl when every correctly developed part of their biology (DNA, chromosomes, bone structure, hormones, formed genitals, etc) would indicate they are a boy, that person's brain is sending them the wrong message. It's not biology that's wrong here, it's the brain. The human brain often is wired incorrectly to produce these outcomes.

And I don't claim they are mentally ill because they believe they were born with the wrong genitalia.

But they weren't born with the wrong genitalia. Literally everything about their body composition says they have the right genitalia.

It's their brain that is chemically wired to feel unsatisfied with the rest of nature.

This isn't a baby boy that via natural error is born without gonads or a girl via natural error born infertile or anything.

This is a "everything is right but the brain is depressed about reality," situation. It's quite similar to the depressed individual who you can point to their brain chemistry as they are constantly saddened or negative about things. We prescribe that person Prozac to make their brain chemistry shift towards the center to better align with reality so that the things that everyone else likes, such as roller coasters and ice cream, make the depressed person happy again.

We don't tell the depressed person that they have to surgically enhance themselves to feel good again. We give them medicine so that reality feels good to them again like it does the rest of us.

The transgender debate is an unprecedented approach wherein the medical industry is trying to say that we will change reality for the afflicted individual rather than help the afflicted individual better cope with reality.

If someone wants to have surgery to correct a mistake they think was made, more power to them.

Well, the libertarian philosophy would say that a consenting adult can do whatever they want including kill themselves if they are unhappy. And if a grown ass man wants to wear dresses and make up, yeah, more power to them (though also: stay the fuck out of bathrooms that my daughter frequents and don't expect me to call you a woman).

But from the perspective of how to treat these people to help them, enabling their delusion of being trapped in the "wrong body," isn't helping. It's hurting.

And the record shows it. Way more people who are treated with gender reassignment options today still end up depressed, suicidal, etc.

It's not society ostracizing them. We live in a more welcoming society than ever. Frankly even people who you would say are judgmental like Cotton here would probably be at least cordial to a transgender person's face.

The problem is that the treatment doesn't address the root issue.

As far as kids go, that's a decision for parents and the kids to make jointly. Not your decision or mine.

It's not a parent's decision to abuse a child, to withhold lifesaving medical treatment (non-disputed medical treatment, like antibiotics when they have a life threatening illness), etc.

When the treatment is shown to be ineffective and in many cases actually harmful, there should probably be a moratorium on it until the child is better able to decide if they want it.

If a kid is convinced they are the wrong gender

The kid is not capable of making that decision and neither is a doctor under any methodology in existence today.

A doctor relies on audible responses to loaded questions to make that diagnosis. "Do you feel like wearing a dress? Then you have gender dysphoria."

It demonstrates zero other than a kid's FEELINGS at a given moment.

But kids are not capable of making those decisions rationally. Kids feel like dinosaurs. Kids feel like doing all kinds of things that they won't feel like in two weeks.

Making an irreversible decision on the basis of what a kid claims they are feeling is insanity.

You know what other diagnosis is made from a patient's answers to questions about their feelings? DEPRESSION. And how do we treat depression? (Hint: It's not surgery or chemical castration. We don't do lobotomies anymore).

You want to prescribe anti depressant medication to stave off clinical depression? That's a different conversation. Surgical intervention or chemical castration for an individual under the age of 18 is heinous.

The only reason the ignorant parents go along with it is because they trust the doctor, which.... see above. (Though actually, as awful as it is, some parents like their kids to be like this for virtue signalling social currency)

But to tell the kid they are basically delusional and it's all in their head is what's wrong. That's the type of treatment that leads to any mental illness, not the thought process itself.

Well you don't tell the kid that "you are delusional and it's all in your head," as such.

But there needs to be reinforcement that a boy who feels in their head like a girl is still in fact a boy as every other biological sign points to being a boy.

Maybe that child needs counseling for why they feel that way, but they are certainly not the same as "every other girl out there." That's just a lie. This is where the "trans women are women," thing is just ridiculous. No, they aren't the same as other women and you can point to a litany of reasons why they are not.

There is a kind, compassionate way to make that individual feel good about themselves. They can be a boy who dresses like a girl. They can be a boy who plays with girl toys or whose friends are all girls.

But they are still a boy. Perhaps being counseled to accept who you are with all your limitations is the better strategy. You like wearing dresses despite being a boy? You do you. But you're a boy who wears dresses and that's cool, not a girl.

 

[Smitty]

Been around this lot for a long time and yet I sit here surprised at how narrow-minded people can be.

Me too. The ignorance from some of the things you've said is astounding, but I don't know why I'm surprised.

 

[Smitty]

Also, treatment doesn't "lead to" mental illness as Prodigal Son wrongly claims here.

Mental illness either exists or it doesn't. The wrong treatment wouldn't "create" new mental illness. It would simply not fix whatever the problem is, leading to further depression, and then action on that uncorrected mental illness, such as suicide.

So the young boy who tells his parents that he feels like a girl and then is corrected and reinforced that he's a boy instead of being given hormone treatment.... that doesn't "create" or "lead to," any mental illness.

Perhaps his argument is that such reinforcement of reality in an uncompassionate manner does little to alleviate the reported suffering of the youth who feels disconnected via gender stereotypes to his actual body, and thus suffers depression from it.

But that's not creating the mental illness. The disconnect is already there.

Perhaps just saying "You are a boy, suck it up," is merely not a helpful treatment of the underlying mental illness/depression. Fair enough.

But chemical castration or surgical intervention isn't either.

 

[Cotton]

have surgery to correct a mistake they think was made

God damn, man. Mistake made by whom exactly?

 

[p1_]

 

[Cotton]

I don't differentiate between gay and trans. It's what someone feels they are. Whether its biological or not, doesn't matter to me. And I don't claim they are mentally ill because they believe they were born with the wrong genitalia. If someone wants to have surgery to correct a mistake they think was made, more power to them.

As far as kids go, that's a decision for parents and the kids to make jointly. Not your decision or mine. If a kid is convinced they are the wrong gender and the parent is supportive, then do your thing. Don't agree with that part? Fine. Not everyone is willing to let kids have surgery or treatment. But to tell the kid they are basically delusional and it's all in their head is what's wrong. That's the type of treatment that leads to any mental illness, not the thought process itself.

No offense, and I have known you a long time, but this whole post is full of delusion and (to be honest) idiocy.

 

[p1_]

Children are not mentally, psychologically nor emotionally mature enough to make this type of decision.

 

[Cotton]

Frankly even people who you would say are judgmental like Cotton here would probably be at least cordial to a transgender person's face.

I would absolutely be cordial. Matter of fact, a couple of months ago we had a boy that was extremely flamboyant and had on makeup at our house (niece's friend). I was absolutely hospitable, until the little fuckhead was rude to my sister, and then that shit went out the window.

 

[Cotton]

This is a pretty ignorant stance though.

A gay person doesn't feel like something they aren't, they are just attracted to a different type of person. Completely different. Like, you could be attracted to blond women and I could be attracted to brunettes.

A person who feels like they are a girl when every correctly developed part of their biology (DNA, chromosomes, bone structure, hormones, formed genitals, etc) would indicate they are a boy, that person's brain is sending them the wrong message. It's not biology that's wrong here, it's the brain. The human brain often is wired incorrectly to produce these outcomes.



But they weren't born with the wrong genitalia. Literally everything about their body composition says they have the right genitalia.

It's their brain that is chemically wired to feel unsatisfied with the rest of nature.

This isn't a baby boy that via natural error is born without gonads or a girl via natural error born infertile or anything.

This is a "everything is right but the brain is depressed about reality," situation. It's quite similar to the depressed individual who you can point to their brain chemistry as they are constantly saddened or negative about things. We prescribe that person Prozac to make their brain chemistry shift towards the center to better align with reality so that the things that everyone else likes, such as roller coasters and ice cream, make the depressed person happy again.

We don't tell the depressed person that they have to surgically enhance themselves to feel good again. We give them medicine so that reality feels good to them again like it does the rest of us.

The transgender debate is an unprecedented approach wherein the medical industry is trying to say that we will change reality for the afflicted individual rather than help the afflicted individual better cope with reality.



Well, the libertarian philosophy would say that a consenting adult can do whatever they want including kill themselves if they are unhappy. And if a grown ass man wants to wear dresses and make up, yeah, more power to them (though also: stay the fuck out of bathrooms that my daughter frequents and don't expect me to call you a woman).

But from the perspective of how to treat these people to help them, enabling their delusion of being trapped in the "wrong body," isn't helping. It's hurting.

And the record shows it. Way more people who are treated with gender reassignment options today still end up depressed, suicidal, etc.

It's not society ostracizing them. We live in a more welcoming society than ever. Frankly even people who you would say are judgmental like Cotton here would probably be at least cordial to a transgender person's face.

The problem is that the treatment doesn't address the root issue.



It's not a parent's decision to abuse a child, to withhold lifesaving medical treatment (non-disputed medical treatment, like antibiotics when they have a life threatening illness), etc.

When the treatment is shown to be ineffective and in many cases actually harmful, there should probably be a moratorium on it until the child is better able to decide if they want it.



The kid is not capable of making that decision and neither is a doctor under any methodology in existence today.

A doctor relies on audible responses to loaded questions to make that diagnosis. "Do you feel like wearing a dress? Then you have gender dysphoria."

It demonstrates zero other than a kid's FEELINGS at a given moment.

But kids are not capable of making those decisions rationally. Kids feel like dinosaurs. Kids feel like doing all kinds of things that they won't feel like in two weeks.

Making an irreversible decision on the basis of what a kid claims they are feeling is insanity.

You know what other diagnosis is made from a patient's answers to questions about their feelings? DEPRESSION. And how do we treat depression? (Hint: It's not surgery or chemical castration. We don't do lobotomies anymore).

You want to prescribe anti depressant medication to stave off clinical depression? That's a different conversation. Surgical intervention or chemical castration for an individual under the age of 18 is heinous.

The only reason the ignorant parents go along with it is because they trust the doctor, which.... see above. (Though actually, as awful as it is, some parents like their kids to be like this for virtue signalling social currency)



Well you don't tell the kid that "you are delusional and it's all in your head," as such.

But there needs to be reinforcement that a boy who feels in their head like a girl is still in fact a boy as every other biological sign points to being a boy.

Maybe that child needs counseling for why they feel that way, but they are certainly not the same as "every other girl out there." That's just a lie. This is where the "trans women are women," thing is just ridiculous. No, they aren't the same as other women and you can point to a litany of reasons why they are not.

There is a kind, compassionate way to make that individual feel good about themselves. They can be a boy who dresses like a girl. They can be a boy who plays with girl toys or whose friends are all girls.

But they are still a boy. Perhaps being counseled to accept who you are with all your limitations is the better strategy. You like wearing dresses despite being a boy? You do you. But you're a boy who wears dresses and that's cool, not a girl.

Yes, they are mentally ill. Very well said, btw.

 

[bbgun]

it's called gender dysphoria for a reason

 

[Sheik]

Children are not mentally, psychologically nor emotionally mature enough to make this type of decision.

Turns out a lot of adults aren’t either.

 

[Sheik]

I think an overwhelming percentage of trans people are mental and needed help long ago instead of affirmation.

Then I look at prominent trans people like Jenner and Jeffrey Star, who know they aren’t actually women. They don’t claim womanhood. They enjoy living life with the outter appearance of a woman while being able to differentiate between the sexes.

Anyone who would tell you that biology isn’t a thing, sex is on a spectrum, those people are far and away in a category of their own when it comes to bat shit mental.

 

[Sheik]

At the risk of offending the guy in this thread who’s name I don’t remember at the moment, I’d say he has some shit going on upstairs if he thinks a person can be born in the wrong body and surgery changes all that.

 

[Cotton]

Then I look at prominent trans people like Jenner and Jeffrey Star, who know they aren’t actually women. They don’t claim womanhood. They enjoy living life with the outter appearance of a woman while being able to differentiate between the sexes.

This is fair. I shouldn't say everyone that society call "trans" are mentally ill. But, 99% of them are.

 

[NoDak]

Did Jenner ever have little Bruce lopped off? I know that was a topic a few years ago, with people saying he couldn't truly believe he was a woman if he wasn't willing to take that step. I think that was right about the time he was voted woman of the year, or something like that.

 

[Smitty]

I think an overwhelming percentage of trans people are mental and needed help long ago instead of affirmation.

Then I look at prominent trans people like Jenner and Jeffrey Star, who know they aren’t actually women. They don’t claim womanhood. They enjoy living life with the outter appearance of a woman while being able to differentiate between the sexes.

Anyone who would tell you that biology isn’t a thing, sex is on a spectrum, those people are far and away in a category of their own when it comes to bat shit mental.

I mean, all you have to do is look at Bruce Jenner and know he's wonkers.

 

[Sheik]

I mean, all you have to do is look at Bruce Jenner and know he's wonkers.

He’s definitely a trip.

He’s also one of the few sane voices in the “trans community”. He’s very vocal about the fact that he’s not a real woman and trans men should not be allowed to compete against women in sports.

I think a lot of people are missing the boat on a larger issue than sports. What about career fields? Quotas are already a very popular thing in hiring practices. How many fake women are going to take the place of an actual woman?

 

[L.T. Fan]

This society has been going down hill badly for the last 4 or so generations. The work ethic is worse, the violence is obviously worse even more than people would have imagined just a few years ago. The ideology has made radical changes in recent years as to morality and acceptable societal standards. Some view these changes as progress but I am of the opinion that lt has glaring signs of irreversible change even to and end that will destroy this nation.

If you compare this countries history with other countries and nations of the past who were destroyed from within there is one common tread. Prosperity in excess. Once that circumstance is dominant, the whole system will collapse because the populace will choose the least responsible road as a trade for discipline and responsibility.

 

[Sheik]

This society has been going down hill badly for the last 4 or so generations. The work ethic is worse, the violence is obviously worse even more than people would have imagined just a few years ago. The ideology has made radical changes in recent years as to morality and acceptable societal standards. Some view these changes as progress but I am of the opinion that lt has glaring signs of irreversible change even to and end that will destroy this nation.

If you compare this countries history with other countries and nations of the past who were destroyed from within there is one common tread. Prosperity in excess. Once that circumstance is dominant, the whole system will collapse because the populace will choose the least responsible road as a trade for discipline and responsibility.

I definitely think the collapse is imminent. I’m positive that the last person to see America be an actual country in business has already been born.