Cowboys at Chargers | Week 4 Game Day Chatter Thread | 09/29/2013

[kidd]

To be fair, we were 1-7 and had severely bottomed out when Wade was fired. We were getting blown out weekly. We aren't seeing that under Garrett.

Fair enough.

But how much longer til the same happens on Garrett's watch?

Schmitty was all about firing Wade when this team went 13-3 for cripes sake!

 

[Smitty]

You see that happen all the time when a coach is fired. Did our immediate change to an opportunistic turnover creating defense mean Pasqualoni was some defensive genius? If Garrett was so much better, how come after the honeymoon of a coaching change was past, it was back to the same old shit?

I must have missed where it went back to 1-7.

 

[Deuce]

I still blame Parcells for this coaching debacle. Had he retired one year earlier instead of trying to squeeze one more paycheck out of jerry, then I believe Sean Payton would have been his successor.

Payton is pass happy too. We'd be in the same situation we are now with this group. We need someone with balance and who can inspire this sad sack.

 

[Smitty]

Fair enough.

But how much longer til the same happens on Garrett's watch?

Schmitty was all about firing Wade when this team went 13-3 for cripes sake!

Because I knew he'd fuck it up, which he did. See, winning 13 games doesn't make me clap like a retard, nor does losing 8 games make me get out my pitchfork. I have a little more insight than that.

 

[Deuce]

Sure. I'm not arguing that no unknown head coach ever becomes a great coach. Look at Andy Reid -- same thing, he was a QB coach before becoming HC.

I'm arguing that Jerry isn't going to find an unknown and turn him into a good head coach in this environment. Our only shot at improvement is to get another Parcells. An established guy with skins on the wall who will make Jerry back down.

The excuse about the "Jerry environment" is used in every possible way on this board, but you honestly have no clue if it would ruin every scenario or not. Make Mike McCoy couldn't function in it, but maybe Gus Bradley could. You never know until you pick a guy and see how he performs. What we do know is that Garrett has been under performing for years.

 

[Genghis Khan]

There was nowhere to go but up from there.

They were 1-7 and not even trying. It's very possible that they could have put someone else in charge other than Garrett and they might have gotten the same results simply because the new coach would have also told them a lot of the same things Garrett did at the time.

It's not like he took a 2-6 team and reeled off 7 or 8 wins and got to the playoffs or something.

And Garrett got a huge boost from Pasqualoni taking over the defense when Wade left. It was a lot like this year's defense in fact - not good at stopping a lot of offenses but opportunistic and creating turnovers. And we saw our first glimpse of Garrett not being good enough that year too. Our preparedness in that Arizona game was atrocious. We nearly got Kitna killed. There was no excuse to lose that game.

 

[Texas Ace]

It's funny. I'm pretty sure I saw Danny Woodhead matched up against a linebacker one on one on 2 TDs.

Funny how I never seem to see favorable match ups like that for our receivers.

Exactly.

 

[1bigfan13]

That's what always happens with this team. It's like the run the shit out of it one week just to get it out of the way as if it's like an annoying chore they are trying to finish.

Committing to the running game for this group is like asking them to drink poison.

It really is.

 

[kidd]

Because I knew he'd fuck it up, which he did. See, winning 13 games doesn't make me clap like a retard, nor does losing 8 games make me get out my pitchfork. I have a little more insight than that.

Then why not stick with Wade until this sure fire, can't miss, yee-haw, arse kicking HC came along? Atleast then we could have had some decent draft picks.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Yes, my stance is so idiotic that you agree with me in the very next sentence that it won't make a difference unless we get an elite head coach who Jerry can't undermine.

Continuity actually is worth something when the guy you are continuing with isn't a head coach who doesn't make his players practice hard. I'd rather continue with the average head coach we have then get another Chan Gailey in here who will go 8-8 with a brand new system and then get fired in 3 years as well.

Plus, the new guy resets the clock on how long you have to keep him around. Jerry would never admit defeat after a single season on a head coach. If the results will be 8-8 no matter what (and with a Mike McCoy or Marc Trestman, they will be, as you yourself just admitted), then I'd also rather have a guy with a large enough amount of opportunities that I could convincingly fire him for an upgrade as soon as I saw one.

You guys have bloodlust for Garrett but it's just not the smart idea on any level. The next move needs to be calculated very deliberately or you will get more of the same, or worse. You've seen it for 20 years now. Yeah, Jerry is just going to magically get the next call right. Not.

yes it is idiotic. Hey, Jerry will just screw up the picks so let's not draft. Dumb.

Just because Jerry will likely screw up the hire doesn't mean shouldn't root for the right thing to happen. You yourself have used this same explanation in other contexts, and it is absolutely correct.

 

[kidd]

yes it is idiotic. Hey, Jerry will just screw up the picks so let's not draft. Dumb.

Just because Jerry will likely screw up the hire doesn't mean shouldn't root for the right thing to happen. You yourself have used this same explanation in other contexts, and it is absolutely correct.

Exactly.

Why should we even worry about drafting a replacement for Romo? Jerry will just screw it up.

Yet he still advocates drafting a good QB to take over once Romo is done.

 

[Genghis Khan]

You have no reasoning other than you want to see him punished because you are angry and you feel he's responsible. Get an appropriate succession plan in place first. Otherwise it's gonna hurt more than help as we've seen with Jerry time and again.

You know who is next on his hiring list.... Mike Zimmer. We have seen that story before. You yourself have complained about how awful Zimmer was here.

Of course, Zimmer goes to Cincy, without a Jerry Jones present, and he looks half decent, and now we'll have people saying that he's an upgrade.

Except he's not. We've seen that story. We've seen all these Jerry Jones created storylines before.

They end in unperformance and failure.

Wait, you are saying Zimmer looks better now because he is coaching under that great owner Mike Brown?

Ok.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Most likely we're screwed either way. Jerry doesn't want a high-profile coach that may steal his limelight so our next HC is likely to be another Jerry-friendly hire. But right now we know what we have and that is a mediocre at best coach who on top of it has been neutered. Stand pat and it's more of the same 8-8 type seasons. Go in a different direction and with Jerry in control nothing much may change but the only hope is to get lucky. Odds are against that happening, but status quo is the only other option and we know that'll get us nowhere.

 

[NoDak]

I must have missed where it went back to 1-7.

Now you're just being obtuse. You know exactly what "same old shit". The team had quit to go 1-7. The same old shit is the 8-8, mediocre, undisciplined lazy team we've watched for far too long. I'd like to think you're smarter than this.

 

[Smitty]

Then why not stick with Wade until this sure fire, can't miss, yee-haw, arse kicking HC came along? Atleast then we could have had some decent draft picks.

Because ANYONE was an upgrade from 1-7 Wade. He was shit. He leads every team he inherits into the trash can. He always makes a team worse than when he takes it over. He's done it at 4 HC stops now, it was beyond proven that Wade was shit when that number was 3.

Garrett did represent an upgrade as we saw when he took over.

Cue argument: "But anyone could have done that!!!" Yes, lots of coaches could have. It's why I just said "ANYONE was an upgrade from 1-7 Wade."

But now that we have one of those "anyones" it is no longer the truth that "anyone" is an upgrade. Now we need someone who is clearly an upgrade. Not so easy when you are replacing someone from the vast number of in-the-middle-tier coaches. It is compounded by the fact that a guy who might have success elsewhere will not have success here because of Jerry, so unless we want to continue the merry go round, it should be a franchise leader HC.

If there isn't one available right now (and currently I don't see one), we should not be in a hurry to punitively fire Garrett because his presence as HC here 3.5 years after this season allows us to fire him at any time we see an upgrade. If we hire a Mike McCoy or something, we likely get another 8-8 coach who is now not fireable for a couple years.

We should have gone after Andy Reid in the offseason but didn't. Sooner rather than later another guy like him will be available.

 

[boozeman]

When a brand new head coach like McCoy schools Garrett with an undermanned team...there is no amount of lipstick left to put on the pig.

 

[Smitty]

No you're just being obtuse. You know exactly what "same old shit". The team had quit to go 1-7. The same old shit is the 8-8, mediocre, undisciplined lazy team we've watched for far to long. I'd like to think you're smarter than this.

Wade wasn't an 8-8 coach, he was a coach who leads his teams to rock bottom, which is what he did here.

I'd like to think you're smart enough to realize that since he left his teams worse everywhere he went.

So saying Garrett going 8-8 means he's the same as Wade is untrue. Wade led his team into the gutter and wasn't going to be able to get them out. So Wade wasn't an 8-8 coach.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Because I knew he'd fuck it up, which he did. See, winning 13 games doesn't make me clap like a retard, nor does losing 8 games make me get out my pitchfork. I have a little more insight than that.

It's not insight, it's bias. You never liked Wade and you called for his head no matter what. You always liked Garrett so you are defending him no matter what.

If it was insight you would see Garrett's deficiencies rather than making excuses for him.

 

[Smitty]

Now you're just being obtuse. You know exactly what "same old shit". The team had quit to go 1-7. The same old shit is the 8-8, mediocre, undisciplined lazy team we've watched for far too long. I'd like to think you're smarter than this.

No you're just being obtuse. You know exactly what "same old shit". The team had quit to go 1-7. The same old shit is the 8-8, mediocre, undisciplined lazy team we've watched for far to long. I'd like to think you're smarter than this.

Wade wasn't an 8-8 coach, he was a coach who leads his teams to rock bottom, which is what he did here.

I'd like to think you're smart enough to realize that since he left his teams worse everywhere he went.

So saying Garrett going 8-8 means he's the same as Wade is untrue. Wade led his team into the gutter and wasn't going to be able to get them out. So Wade wasn't an 8-8 coach.

 

[kidd]

When a brand new head coach like McCoy schools Garrett with an undermanned team...there is no amount of lipstick left to put on the pig.

But...but...Garrett is cripplreled by teh JAY!!11!!