Machota: With 'Senator' Byron Jones, Cowboys drafted more than just a workout warrior

Cowboysrock55 said:
If he was graded to be the next Ed Reed he would have been a top 5 pick. Obviously no one was projecting him as an elite FS or CB otherwise he would have gone higher. He does have some elite physical skills though so both things are still possible.
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Then again, if Ed Reed himself was graded as "Ed Reed" in the draft, he would have gone top 5 too. same with Revis as a matter of fact. I don't think you can just proclaim a guy to have a limited ceiling based on where he went in the draft. It's a guideline sure, but loads and loads of guys have out played their draft status.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
He didn't have that great of a pass rush up front.
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He had a very stout front in front of him which I think matters a whole lot more than sack numbers. Forgetting the clearly above average pass rushing ability they protected him by:

- making tackles so he didn't have to
- being competent everywhere else, allowed him to truly roam free
- challenging the QB's ability to step up which greatly compromises accuracy in the deep middle.

Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis-- this was HOF level talent and a front office that believed in surrounding them with solid players.

No one should ever evaluate FS's based on Ed Reed as a model just like they shouldn't compare prospective CB's with Deion Sanders (stares at Jerry).

Reed was the perfect marriage of great talent with an unreal supporting cast. He could have lined up 25 yards downfield on that defense if he wanted to.
 
L.T. Fan said:
Well give him credit for creating escape chutes or as they say in the legal venacular, loopholes. :art
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I don't know what is so wrong with saying "I don't know how this guy will turn out, but IF he's this good...."

Other than you guys just like to bitch.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Then again, if Ed Reed himself was graded as "Ed Reed" in the draft, he would have gone top 5 too. same with Revis as a matter of fact. I don't think you can just proclaim a guy to have a limited ceiling based on where he went in the draft. It's a guideline sure, but loads and loads of guys have out played their draft status.
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And I'm not saying Byron Jones is definitely limited because of where he was selected.

Just that I'm using his selection spot as a guideline for what teams think of him, and therefore, what they project him to be as a corner... because I don't know any better myself. If Jones is your average 20-somethingth cornerback pick, I would expect solid starter, but not All-Pro.

I have a lot more hope for finding an elite safety in that range, because I can think of a few more examples off the top of my head, however. And additionally, because I feel like his skill set would help him stand out at safety more than at CB. He has the skills to be a guy who is excellent at reading the play in front of him and using his athleticism to break up passes because he can jump off the charts. That is mitigated somewhat at CB.
 
mschmidt64 said:
Who said anything about Ed Reed?

I said if he's an Eric Reid caliber prospect. Wasn't he picked at 20?
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I brought up Ed Reed because he is truly an elite safety. Same thing with a guy like Earl Thomas. Those are the safety equivalents to Revis, not Eric Reid.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
I brought up Ed Reed because he is truly an elite safety. Same thing with a guy like Earl Thomas. Those are the safety equivalents to Revis, not Eric Reid.
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Eric Reid was a Pro Bowler his rookie year.... I'd take that. There have been a bunch of high level safeties taken in the 15-25 range it feels like.
 
mschmidt64 said:
Eric Reid was a Pro Bowler his rookie year.... I'd take that. There have been a bunch of high level safeties taken in the 15-25 range it feels like.
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Well I'd take Joe Haden, Patrick Peterson, Antonio Cromartie at corner in a heartbeat... All of them are head and shoulders better then any of our corners last year.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
Well I'd take Joe Haden, Patrick Peterson, Antonio Cromartie at corner in a heartbeat... All of them are head and shoulders better then any of our corners last year.
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But Haden and Peterson were both top 7 picks.... so that is besides the point.
 
mschmidt64 said:
But Haden and Peterson were both top 7 picks.... so that is besides the point.
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If I say Richard Sherman does that make it better? Byron Jones must be a million times better then him since he was drafted higher.
 
Cowboysrock55 said:
If I say Richard Sherman does that make it better? Byron Jones must be a million times better then him since he was drafted higher.
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Durrr.

I already said he's not limited because of his draft position. I'm just using that as a base assumption since that's where teams projected him. Once again, if he turns into Richard Sherman, great, he should stay at corner.

Of course, there's not a lot to indicate he will at this particular juncture other than blind optimism (homerism) since we haven't even seen him in training camp yet and his draft stock has him as a 20's-something CB, and there was nothing that caused him to fall like Randy Gregory, who was otherwise a top 5-10 pick.

Doesn't change my argument that if he's even equivalent as a safety, that's his more valuable position, nor does it change my stance that BASED ON WHAT I KNOW ABOUT HIM, I think he'll make a better safety than CB. If you have a different take, more power to you, but you should probably say what that is instead of just questioning my position a la Jiggy.
 
All caps. Fuck your argument, Crock.
 
I think he's playing CB regardless of what we want. Marinelli seems to have an "any old shit will do" attitude toward the safety position.
 
Clay_Allison said:
I think he's playing CB regardless of what we want. Marinelli seems to have an "any old shit will do" attitude toward the safety position.
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I would agree with you simply because team ownership/management has a CB infatuation, except for one thing... they keep talking about him playing safety on the DC.com radio shows. They might know something. They were the ones talking up CB weeks and weeks before the draft, and then they pinpointed Byron Jones weeks early too.

So maybe where there is smoke there is fire.
 
mschmidt64 said:
I would agree with you simply because team ownership/management has a CB infatuation, except for one thing... they keep talking about him playing safety on the DC.com radio shows. They might know something. They were the ones talking up CB weeks and weeks before the draft, and then they pinpointed Byron Jones weeks early too.

So maybe where there is smoke there is fire.
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Man, I hope. I've been infatuated with the idea of a "true" FS since Rod Woodson switched from CB and started returning interceptions left and right for TDs. Then the Raven replaced him with Ed Reed. Jesus.
 
mschmidt64 said:
I would agree with you simply because team ownership/management has a CB infatuation, except for one thing... they keep talking about him playing safety on the DC.com radio shows. They might know something. They were the ones talking up CB weeks and weeks before the draft, and then they pinpointed Byron Jones weeks early too.

So maybe where there is smoke there is fire.
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Keep wishing for that.

The fact that dummies like Broaddus and Spagnola talk about safety doesn't make it likely.

They have a shortage of bodies at corner because of Claiborne and the same four shitty incumbents are returning at safety.

He will unquestionably have to start at corner.

I want him left there. Let him learn. You picked a damn corner, make him a corner. We are not good enough to start shifting people around.

I know there was this talk of him being another Arrington and moving around. Bad idea on this defense.
 
Clay_Allison said:
I think he's playing CB regardless of what we want. Marinelli seems to have an "any old shit will do" attitude toward the safety position.
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Yep, and that is a major reason why I think Jones doesn't go to safety.

Marinelli values that like he does a one-technique DT.

Did you see the safeties in Chicago, Detroit and even Tampa? Holy crap.

Chris Conte, Major Wright? Hello?
 
boozeman said:
Yep, and that is a major reason why I think Jones doesn't go to safety.

Marinelli values that like he does a one-technique DT.

Did you see the safeties in Chicago, Detroit and even Tampa? Holy crap.

Chris Conte, Major Wright? Hello?
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I don't understand Marinelli's thoughts here. His most successful defense had Booger McFarland and John Lynch. Granted they were top layers and icing on an already rich cake, but they made a definite difference.
 
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