Thank You Chancellor Hance!

Cowboysrock55 said:
That's true, my parents owned a tool and die shop most of my life. They had tons of work and were very successful but their biggest problem was finding actual tool and die workers. Just not many workers out there capable of doing that job, the only way to find good ones was to get them out of highschool and put them in an apprenticeship program immediately. Most highschool kids wanted to go to college instead of taking that route.
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That's crazy, c-rock...i started out in a machine shop and was once offered an apprenticeship at a tool and die. i really wanted to do it but i was going to have to take an initial cut in pay and have a few years to get back to where i was. Of course with a couple more years i would have been making really good money but i passed. later i opened a machine shop and proceeded to get my financial teeth kicked in during the 911 events.
 
skidadl said:
Inflated education costs are totally unreasonable right now. Clay is generally complaining about how the man screwed him but in this case he's right. Not that he got screwed because we should all find a way to figure out our own lives. But yes about the cost of education.

Still, there are some good options out there if you take some to to look into it. You just gottas work the system a little better these days. You can go to CTC in Texas or a handful of other junior colleges and then transfer to a state university for reasonable. My 17 years old will graduate from high school in December and then graduate from JC in May for $4500. It looks like he will finish up debt free. His total will be 15-18k-ish for all four years.
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No, I'm not the one that got screwed, I was one of the last of the lucky ones, you dense fake beaner.

My point was that is was close to being too expensive back in 2000 and a decade later it's doubled in price and that's not normal inflation.

It does annoy me a little that my degree is worthless, but I don't owe 50 grand for it either.
 
skidadl said:
it is all up to the kid's ability, imo. My oldest son hasn't taken a college course yet. He turns 21 in July. He is wroking as a pipeline welder's helper with the goal of getting certified soon.

Having a trade is just as solid as having a degree.
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That's pretty awesome. I'm not knocking college completely, I'll probably cash in my GI Bill eventually (thanks so much to all you taxpayers) but there's definitely a low initial return on investment for many degrees, compared to trade schools.

I think that it's a little silly that recent high school graduates are expected to be the main consumer of higher education, when they (typically) don't have the work ethic, professionalism, or understanding of the real world to appreciate the education they're recieving.
 
skidadl said:
it is all up to the kid's ability, imo. My oldest son hasn't taken a college course yet. He turns 21 in July. He is wroking as a pipeline welder's helper with the goal of getting certified soon.

Having a trade is just as solid as having a degree.
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These days? Absolutely.

Too many people with degrees. It has lessened demand.

Didn't always use to be the case but it sure is now.
 
The current generation has a lot more options than were available during my youth. Community colleges were a rarity except in larger metro areas and if you didn't live there it was as difficult to attend as it would have been to go to a 4 year school. Either way you had to travel or relocate and that was very expensive to do. None of this factors in the availability of all the financing programs which are too numerous to count. There are grants and on and on. It sickens me that the opportunities so abundant are abused by some who are just looking to find a source of revenue while they revel on the taxpayer dime. I am equally sickened that the lawmakers continue to expand ways for the system to be abused. I am not interested in paying one cent for the program as it exists today.

If I were designing the system, I would only advance funds from loans on a semester basis and the school would have to monitor each students progress who were being funded by the loan proceeds. In turn they will have to issue a full disclosure of the students grades or the funds would immediately be stopped. If the students did not maintain a predetermined GPA they would lose all further loan benefits. That system alone would stop a lot of the waste even though there would be a loss. There is an old banking adage. "Your first loss is your least loss".
 
This might be pretty unpopular but i don't really agree with the typical traditional college experience for my kids at this point.

usually that consists of Jr finishing high school and then moving off to college to spend daddy's money while he finds himself. i'm sorry but you ain't finding yourself on my dime while you trash your GPA while being clueless about what you want to do. i'll pay for community college first and then have the conversation depending on how it goes. i know it works for some but i'd rather not gamble my money on that. Not that i have it to throw around anyway. No offense to anyone who went that route.

My 14 year old son has a strong interest in business. He has been in meetings with me and asks tons of questions. signed him up for Principals of Management and he ate it up. We signed him up for 2 more courses since he wanted to do more. All of the dual credit options now saves a ton of college money. There are other non-traditional pathways that save money as well.
 
Skid's right, unless the University system changes drastically I won't want my kids to go to college. Learning a trade will be much more lucrative for them. The only time I would encourage them to go to a 4 year school is if they are fantastic at math and want to be engineers.

Personally, I think every academic program should be reviewed every 5 years and if graduates with that major aren't getting jobs the program should have its funding cut.

Tax payers don't need to be funding Poly-Sci, Women's Studies, African American Studies, or any other degree plan that doesn't lead to a job.

Schools should also limit history, psychology, and other majors to accepting only as many students as meet demand.
 
skidadl said:
This might be pretty unpopular but i don't really agree with the typical traditional college experience for my kids at this point.

usually that consists of Jr finishing high school and then moving off to college to spend daddy's money while he finds himself. i'm sorry but you ain't finding yourself on my dime while you trash your GPA while being clueless about what you want to do. i'll pay for community college first and then have the conversation depending on how it goes. i know it works for some but i'd rather not gamble my money on that. Not that i have it to throw around anyway. No offense to anyone who went that route.

My 14 year old son has a strong interest in business. He has been in meetings with me and asks tons of questions. signed him up for Principals of Management and he ate it up. We signed him up for 2 more courses since he wanted to do more. All of the dual credit options now saves a ton of college money. There are other non-traditional pathways that save money as well.
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One area I would take as an exception to your position is that a formal education is a much better entree into any endeavor simply by virtue that the controlling business community will generally offer more opportunities to those who have a formal education background. Whether this is equitable is an debate in itself but that is the way it is.
 
L.T. Fan said:
One area I would take as an exception to your position is that a formal education is a much better entree into any endeavor simply by virtue that the controlling business community will generally offer more opportunities to those who have a formal education background. Whether this is equitable is an debate in itself but that is the way it is.
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Having good credit and not being 50k in debt also helps you get opportunities in starting your business.
 
Yes are misunderstanding me. i am in no way against formal education. i am just not paying for little johny to go off and drink my money up. Start at community college and then let's talk. if i were against formal education why in the world wouls i pay for my 17 and 14 year old boys to take early college credits? it is just not for everyone. i would be equally proud of my son if he spent 4 years working his way up as a plumber to make 65k and no debt as i would my son who spend 65k in education and is entering the workforce making 40k.

The problem going on right now is that kids are paying 100k + for an education when it is not really needed. i love education...but no for everyone.
 
When I was in junior college, I lived at home away from the temptations I would have gotten into as an immature college freshman. It really was ideal.

Anyway, I am against continuing to make college a white collar trade school. The reality of the situation is that people expect a return on an investment and a way to pay off the debt, which is fair enough, but there is inherent value in being exposed to Western cultural achievement even if it doesn't show up in dollars.
 
Unfortunately, we're all paying for little Johnny to go to school and get drunk.

Also, I think "inherent value" is the equivalent of imaginary value. If it isn't legal tender for debts public and private, it's not valuable enough to offset the costs to the taxpayer and the student.
 
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Clay_Allison said:
Unfortunately, we're all paying for little Johnny to go to school and get drunk.
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Not unless his parents are poor. Otherwise he is getting loans.

So, we are only paying for a much smaller percentage of kids to get drunk.
 
We are all gonna pay for it as soon as those loans go belly up on a national scale.
 
skidadl said:
We are all gonna pay for it as soon as those loans go belly up on a national scale.
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The fact that you can't declare bankruptcy against them is the only thing keeping that bubble from going, but if enough people go into default despite the credit consequences, eventually the Banks will start going under due to the lack of cashflow.
 
Clay_Allison said:
Unfortunately, we're all paying for little Johnny to go to school and get drunk.

Also, I think "inherent value" is the equivalent of imaginary value. If it isn't legal tender for debts public and private, it's not valuable enough to offset the costs to the taxpayer and the student.
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The Communists and utilitarians won.
 
Kbrown said:
When I was in junior college, I lived at home away from the temptations I would have gotten into as an immature college freshman. It really was ideal.
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That's the way i think will work best for us. it all depends on the kid, imo.
 
Maybe this has been just my experience, but has anyone else noticed that families will much more frequently pay for a daughter's college than a son's?

I've met quite a few guys in the Navy who were told to GTFO of the house when they graduated high school, but their little sisters' were getting their entire education paid for by mommy and daddy.
 
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